EP249: Why Human Centered Design Matters More in an AI-Shaped Business Environment
A conversation on why human-centered design matters more in an AI-shaped world.
This episode explores how better experiences reduce friction, improve outcomes, and help organizations stay close to real human needs while driving commercial value.
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Why Human Centered Design Matters More in an AI-Shaped Business Environment
Some ideas become so widely used that their meaning starts to weaken.
Human-centered design has reached that point.
It shows up in strategy decks, innovation conversations, and transformation programs across industries. It often signals progress. It suggests that the organization is thinking beyond systems and technology. It gives the impression that people are being considered carefully.
Over time, something else happens. The language stays familiar, but the depth behind it becomes less clear.
That is why the conversation with Kara Prosser is worth paying attention to. It brings the idea back to something grounded. Something practical. Something close to real experience.
Kara built her business around a clear belief. Experiences need to create value for humans while also supporting commercial growth. Many organizations still separate those two ideas. Human value sits in one conversation. Business performance sits in another. Design is expected to connect them in the middle somehow.
What tends to suffer is the outcome. People do not experience an organization in separate parts. They do not move through brand, product, service, compliance, and operations as isolated categories. They move through one lived experience.
That experience either feels clear or confusing. It either builds trust or creates distance.
It either reduces friction or increases it.
Human-centered design matters because it keeps attention on that reality.
Most organizations would say they care about people. Few would say otherwise. The harder question is whether the business structure still allows people to be seen clearly in decision-making.
Kara’s perspective is useful here.
She describes human-centered design as a way of working across the full system. Designing with people, not only for them. Looking beyond one touchpoint. Staying iterative because behavior changes quickly. Making ideas tangible through prototypes and testing. Bringing the right people into the room early enough for stronger decisions.
Some organizations still approach design too narrowly.
One interface improves while the broader journey remains difficult.
One moment gets redesigned while the surrounding system stays the same.
A team asks for innovation while protecting the assumptions that block change.
None of this usually comes from bad intent.
It grows naturally inside complexity. Large organizations operate through multiple functions, multiple incentives, and competing timelines. Fragmentation follows easily in that environment. The human experience breaks apart, even when everyone involved is trying to improve it.
Healthcare makes that very visible.
In the conversation, Kara discusses clinical trials, hospital systems, and the realities people face as they move through healthcare. In those environments, poor design creates more than inconvenience. It causes confusion, stress, delays, and dropouts. Trust weakens at the very moment when trust matters most.
There is also a business consequence.
When people leave a clinical trial because the process is too difficult, timelines shift. Investment gets exposed. Access to the market slows down. A system that asks too much from people becomes more expensive for the business as well.
Human-centered design looks very different when viewed through that lens.
It no longer feels like a soft discipline sitting on the edges of strategy. It becomes part of reducing waste, improving decisions, and strengthening outcomes.
Kara shared a simple example that carries real weight. Patients in a clinical trial were being asked to come in for blood draws 24 times a month. That number was reduced to six. They were also given a pack that helped explain the treatment to their children. Those changes improved adherence and reduced cost.
The human experience improved. The business outcome improved with it.
That relationship becomes even more important now.
AI is accelerating change across almost every industry. Workflows are being reconsidered. Expectations are shifting. People compare services more quickly, switch providers more quickly, and reassess value more often than before.
In that environment, many businesses begin with capability. They ask what AI can automate, reduce, or scale.
Those questions make sense. What often disappears too early is the human being moving through the system. One of the strongest points in the episode sits here. Start with the human experience. Then look at what technology can enable. That sequence matters. When automation becomes the starting point, a business may become more efficient while becoming harder to navigate.
Efficiency alone does not create loyalty. Speed alone does not create trust.
More technology does not automatically create a better experience.
AI can support analysis, accelerate testing, reduce administrative work, and help teams prototype faster. Its value is real. Yet it does not remove the need for judgment, interpretation, empathy, and context. It does not read hesitation in the room. It does not pick up silence in the same way a human can. It does not replace lived understanding.
The strongest organizations are unlikely to choose between technology and human insight.
A better path is emerging. Technology increases speed. Human understanding keeps that speed connected to reality.
That is where human-centered design becomes strategic.
It helps organizations stay close to the people moving through their systems as those systems change at speed. It keeps decision-making connected to lived experience. It gives teams a way to test what is possible while staying aware of what actually works for real people.
That becomes valuable very quickly in periods of change.
When behavior shifts fast, old assumptions lose value fast, too.
The organizations that remain useful are often the ones that keep returning to a simple question:
What is it actually like to be the human on the other side of this system?
The question sounds small. Its effect is often much bigger than expected.
Guest Links
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kara-prosser-26960977/
Business: https://designfor.uk/
Website: https://www.jensheitland.com/
Business: https://www.heitlandmediagroup.com/
LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/jensheitland/
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YouTube:https://www.youtube.com/@jens-heitland
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Transcript
[00:00:00] Jens Heitland: We just roll.
[00:00:01] Kara Prosser: Okay. How you doing
[00:00:04] Jens Heitland: Kara? Good To welcome to. Love it. Thank you. It's a amazing to meet you again.
[00:00:07] Kara Prosser: Yeah, you too.
[00:00:09] Jens Heitland: We haven't, when did we meet? Last time, last year in London.
[00:00:12] Kara Prosser: I think it was June. I was brunette. Right. So I just called brunette. So it's like, it's like before or after brunette, you know, it's like, when was it?
It was after brunette. I
[00:00:19] Jens Heitland: remember you blonde.
[00:00:21] Kara Prosser: Yeah, I know everyone does. My friends still like, I go to meet them at the pub and they're like, where are you? Um, but yeah, I'm loving the brunette.
[00:00:30] Jens Heitland: No. Cool.
[00:00:31] Kara Prosser: Yeah.
[00:00:32] Jens Heitland: Te so you built your own business since we last time met. Tell, tell me all about it. So what's the business about?
What's behind the business? What's the idea?
[00:00:42] Kara Prosser: Yeah, so I'm building a little business called Design Four. Well, hopefully we'll be, will be big. And I guess Design Four exists to create real, to create experiences that provide real value for humans and drive commercial growth. That's, that's why I, I started it.
Um, it's designed for business, designed for humans, designed for society, um, designed for growth, but ultimately designed for the future. Like how do we create the future that we wanna live in, whether we're a bank or a not-for-profit or a healthcare organization. Um, and it's, it's founded on sort of human-centered design principles, but also bringing that.
Commercial lens and that commercial angle, because I believe, I guess in the work that I've done over the last 16 years, that, um, you have to have that commercial angle to, to have impact. It can't be kind of one or the other. I really believe it has to be both to, to drive impact no matter what sector you are working in.
So that's why design for exists, that's, that's the ethos, that's the meaning behind it. And that's really kind of what gets me out of bed every day to sort of try and design. Better experiences to help people.
[00:01:55] Jens Heitland: So it's, it is really combining all the things that you have done over the last decade into your own thing.
Now
[00:02:01] Kara Prosser: it is. It's terrifying.
[00:02:02] Jens Heitland: Amazing.
[00:02:03] Kara Prosser: But
[00:02:03] Jens Heitland: exciting.
[00:02:04] Kara Prosser: Finally, finally, finally,
[00:02:06] Jens Heitland: like, like, like we said, like six or seven years ago. Yeah. I, I was saying it already to you. You should build your own business, and finally you did it.
[00:02:13] Kara Prosser: Finally. I know, I know. I still remember s and i, I probably still have it in like my box of, you know, you know me.
I've like moved internationally so many times, but. We did this big mapping exercise right? About like what's important to me and what I wanna do next, and I'd just come out of a really big important role that was, so much of my identity was wrapped up in that and we did this big mapping exercise and everything was pointing towards this.
And then I went and did something, right. I went back to the agency. Well, but um, I feel like those sessions that we had together were really like foundational to kind of this and I guess, you know, just. Even though it's been a long time, I had like a big six years in my career then working in top tier consulting.
I kind of always had you at the back of my head as, as like a cheerleader. Like literally, seriously, I always knew you were there. Kind of sort of ready to cheer me on doing this and yeah, it's meant a lot that kind of support from afar. So thanks, Jens.
[00:03:07] Jens Heitland: You're welcome. Now the, the cool thing about this is because I think right now the time is so ripe for this.
If you look in all the big changes that are happening right now, obviously we have the wars that are happening right now. We are recording this in 2026 in March. But even more so if you look into the technology development, everything when you look into organization need to be redesigned somehow.
Hundred percent. 'cause it's changing so much. And, and then having the experience that you have from working with international clients from big to small over um, like. In, in different cultures, in different contexts, in different industries, that's, that's a backbone that you have, that you can utilize for, for everyone.
[00:03:51] Kara Prosser: A hundred percent. And I think this is, this is, I think what sort of gave me the confidence in the end to go for it is that, you know, nobody can sort of take away that experience, right? Like I've, I've done it, I've worked in 42 countries on different projects. I've lived in five countries, right? Kind of working at, in, in all different levels of business.
And I think I sort of got to a point where. I feel like I can deliver more value for my clients and for, for their end users doing design for and kind of working through that, that business model. Um, and already in the kind of short time I've been doing it, just being able to give my a hundred percent focus to the challenges that they have.
And there's some big challenges around like clinical trials and climate change and, you know, how do we get aid to people in the middle, you know, they're big, juicy challenges. I already just feel like I can. Unlock my brain and experience in such a more meaningful way for those organizations and people who work in those organizations.
So it's been super rewarding already.
[00:04:49] Jens Heitland: Yeah. So if we look into organizations that could need your help, what are the problems that you are solving and for whom are you solving those problems?
[00:04:59] Kara Prosser: That's such a good question. Look, I've worked in every sector and I really, I really am a big believer that we have to make the world a better place and change the world.
You know, one experience at a time. Mm. Whether that's someone trying to get a mortgage to buy a house, or an old lady trying to get on a British Airways flight, or someone who's got terminal cancer trying to get on a clinical trial. I just believe that we have to make these experiences better. Um. So it's all businesses of all shapes and sizes.
Obviously as you know, my heart is really in healthcare. Most of my experiences in healthcare and I always return to healthcare and that's really from a very personal experience. I went through losing my dad, um, in 2014 and, you know, I was like a baby experience designer at the time doing some really interesting work for.
Airlines and banks and logistics companies. And I went through this experience when my dad died very suddenly in hospital and I was kind of like, hang on a minute. Like no one's thought about the human experience here. Yeah, this is, this is broken. A series of events kind of happened that day that I was just like, you know, and obviously the shock and the grief and I went to my CEO at the time and just was sort of like all this amazing experience, design, creative, digital.
Work we're doing for our corporate clients, we have to do this in healthcare, you know?
[00:06:27] Jens Heitland: Yeah.
[00:06:28] Kara Prosser: And he was like, okay, go and go and write me a business case and win me a client. And you, this is like, I had no idea how, no idea how to do that back. Then I went back to my desk and remember Googling, like how to win a client at a digital that was before
[00:06:40] Jens Heitland: ai.
[00:06:40] Kara Prosser: It was way before ai. It was way before anything. Right. And I don't know, I think like I just. You know, I have a lot of tenacity. I have a lot of grit. I think it was, I think it was through that and probably a bit of luck that we did win this really big program of work with a big hospital in Australia. It was about helping chronically ill teenagers, transition from pediatric care into adult care, and it just kind of went from there.
I ended up running a part of the agency focused on healthcare work. Then I ended up running a part of the agency. So we sort of said, okay, well if we can use this problem solving approach to solve problems in healthcare. Problem solving approach being human-centered design.
[00:07:19] Jens Heitland: Mm-hmm.
[00:07:20] Kara Prosser: How can we use it to solve other social impact challenges we have against violence against women and climate change and diversity.
And we scaled up, um, that offering to be centered around the United Nations centered development goals. And then I rolled it out globally with Dentsu and it just kind of went from there. But I guess my, my passion really always comes back to, to healthcare because I think that it is the one thing that really.
Unites us as people on this planet is that we deserve better access to better healthcare. You know, I don't think I speak to anyone who hasn't had a broken healthcare experience and um, it's kind of the biggest lowest hanging fruit in, in my eyes.
[00:08:01] Jens Heitland: Yeah. If we double click on the human-centered design, because it's kind of a buzzword still, and a lot of people from my experience still don't understand that.
Yeah. How would you define that in the work that you do?
[00:08:14] Kara Prosser: I think it's designing for humans, with humans, and there's a series of principles that embody human-centered design. So it's human-centered. So we get, and we work with the people that we're designing it for. So if we think about healthcare, that's not only patients or, you know, I don't really like calling them patients, but it's, you know, people,
[00:08:32] Jens Heitland: yeah.
[00:08:33] Kara Prosser: Carers, um, healthcare professionals. And then, you know, if we look at a sector like pharma, there's a whole bunch of other people involved in that kind of. Payers, buyers, regulators, right? So it's all the people. So that's the first sort of principle of human-centered design. The second principle is human-centered design is holistic.
We're not looking at, you know, um, the consent form when you go to the doctor. We're looking at every single element of that experience, kind of leading up to that moment that you go and see a doctor, everything sort of surrounding that. So it's, it's, it's the design of yes, a single touch point, but also that kind of ecosystem where that.
Where that problem occurs. And so a term like service design, for example, is a good way to kind of demonstrate how human centered design needs to be holistic. We need to design for the human, and then we sort of go behind the scenes and look at process tech people and, and what's happening that needs to kind of support those experiences.
The third principle of human-centered design is that it's, um, iterative. You know, it's not kind of set and forget. It's not like, oh yeah, cool. Now we've designed that app and everyone can go and enjoy good healthcare or whatever it is. Um, get on their flight in an okay way. It's, it's iterative. It's sort of constantly checking in because.
And I'm gonna come back to this 'cause I think that this is one of the reasons why it's so exciting to be a human centered designer at the moment because our behavior in the last 12 months has just totally changed because of ai. So it's, it's, it's iterative. Human centered design is also tangible. So we make things, we don't just make PowerPoint slides.
I mean, I do make a lot of PowerPoint slides, but it's making prototypes and mocking things up and, and designing things with, with people. Um, and then the last one is that it's, it's co-creative and that's a little bit different, sort of it being human centered in that. You create it with the stakeholders who, who are involved.
And that's a really important part. And I think that's a, a big part that people get wrong, you know? And people think that co-design or co-creation is just chucking a bunch of people in a room together and doing a workshop for two hours. Like that's not good co-design, you know? So I guess those are the principles of human-centered design.
And then of course. Um, for everyone who loves the process, which everyone does a nice linear, clear process, there is a little bit of a process that we go through. Um, you know, I guess I really love what's called the Double Diamond Process, which was coined by the UK Design Council in 1982. So it's pretty old.
Yeah. Or older than me anyway. Maybe not as old as you, Jens. Um, and that's sort of, yeah. Discover, define, design, deliver. But the reason why I love that linear way of doing it is it has two diamonds attached to it. And the diamonds are about your mindset during the that process. So discovery is that first opening of the diamond where we think really broad and without any restrictions and like a beginner.
And then we start to make sense of that. Right. And then we get to the other diamond. Mm-hmm. And this is my favorite part of the design process. Is we go broad again, we, we, and this is where innovation happens, right? In this part of the diamond where we go blue sky thinking anything's possible. And then as we come to the end of that second diamond, that's where we go, okay, well how do we make this real?
Yeah. How do we kind of make this profitable? How do we build revenue off of this product or service or whatever?
[00:11:44] Jens Heitland: The, the key part of that, what I have experienced myself being in large organization, is that you have someone who guides you through that. 'cause I, I think the part of the co-design, what I have experienced, you need to have someone who has done it a couple of times who is an expert in this and who as well takes the team outside of their comfort zone in between.
And then looking into whom else do we need to involve in all of this? Not, not just, yeah. Let's bring a couple of customers in and then we talk to them is, is really looking into what are the ripple effects in an organization and why are things not implemented after 'cause That's, I think, one of the things that I see always where, where organizations at least are, are a little bit scared about, and maybe scared, it's not the the right word, but it's, it's more, they're not investing into these kind of things because they don't see the outcome straight away.
But I think it's, it's also. Uh, looping that back to what you said is the, the behavior changes that need to happen in an organization now coming even more so, but you need to enable an organization as well to get into that direction and then using a professional, like, like yourself, then driving this changes in the organization so that it's really happening.
[00:12:54] Kara Prosser: A hundred percent. I'll give you probably what, what I think is like a good example of co-design, right? We did some co-design workshops. We did, of course. That's the fun stuff. We, I was doing some work for a big, um, pharmaceutical company and, um, we were looking at creating a patient experience framework for their r and d part of the business r and d, research and development clinical trials, right.
Attached to that were providing some outcomes for some clinical trials that they had sort of coming up. And so we were like, right. So obviously clinical trials, lots of different people. If we think about co-design, we've got kind of the regulators, we've got the scientists who are kind of, you know, need to ensure that the drug is gonna work.
And then of course we have patients, we have HCPs, we have the sites like the hospitals where the clinical trials are gonna take place. So we formed a program of work where we had sort of all of those people involved throughout the program of work. And obviously at the start it's kind of like, what are the outcomes we need to achieve?
What are those numbers we need to achieve? And again, bringing that design for humans and commercial growth. You know, a lot of it was around like, how can we, um, save them money on the clinical trial, right? Because if they don't get people to go on the trial, or if people. Drop out while they're on the trial or have a bad experience, then they can't get the drug to market and they can't sell and they can't make money.
That is the business model of pharmaceutical companies. Right. I mean, from my angle, what really motivates me is getting that medicine to people who need it, right? And, and, and I think poor pharma companies get a bit of a bad rap, but like ultimately that's what they do. You know what I mean? I'm sure that if, if, if you were sick or your wife was sick, that you would wanna make sure that you could have.
Access to the, this new medicine, right? So in this co-design instance, we had like very early on, patients involved in like our steering committee. You know, that was very uncomfortable for the organization to kind of have someone be sitting with the executive team, like have a patient be sitting with the executive team.
So that brings a certain amount of insight, right? That individual, but there's also a bit of bias to that type of insight in that setting. So how else can we get that? Insight. We did some research, we went out and we spent time with patients in Japan and India and Argentina and all different countries.
Um, then we did some co-creation. And the co-creation was really a lot around having some of those other players in the ecosystem, like the regulators, like the, um, clinicians and team who designed that study kind of be in the room with patients and hear things from their point of view. Right. Yeah. And when co-design sessions are planned well and run well.
[00:15:28] Jens Heitland: By professional, like me, or,
[00:15:30] Kara Prosser: or you know, there's a lot of people who work in this space. Um, they're very effective. 'cause within a short amount of time, you can make good decisions and design good products and services because, you know, the patient might have a certain point of view, but then we know from the clinician who's there in the room with us that, oh, we can't do that because of X, Y, Z.
So rather than sort of going to the patient and then going to the, you know, and then sort of doing that, and in some situations that's a better way of working, but. Good co-design when it's planned and there's some other events and sequences around that sort of have that outcome.
[00:16:04] Jens Heitland: Yeah. The interesting pure business set.
Now again, in the end, it's cheaper if you do it well because you're reducing the time. You're, you're reducing the failure rate and in the end you have a faster go to market.
[00:16:16] Kara Prosser: A hundred percent. A hundred percent. And that's like usually the conversation.
[00:16:19] Jens Heitland: Yeah.
[00:16:19] Kara Prosser: I'm having. And sometimes I get a bit, I get a bit, um, caught out.
'cause you know me like I'm a massive empath. I, you know, this is what gets me going is, is to, is to help people. Right. But throughout my career, I've kind of learned the hard way that not everyone is wired like that, and businesses certainly are. And, and I need to kind of, you know, change that conversation.
That's part of my work. That's what I help, that's what I help clients do. Is, is, okay, well let's, like, what is that conversation we're having in the boardroom? Yeah. With the CE. Yeah. Right. Because chances are, I mean, of course they're caring and of course they wanna get drugs and medicines to people who need it most, but.
You know, these are multi-billion dollar clinical trials, right? So how do we ensure that like, yeah, we're not gonna be wasting any money. There's not gonna be dropouts. 'cause that's what gets really expensive on a clinical trial. Yeah. There's not only you've recruited the person and they're on it, then they drop out.
You can't use any of their data, you can't use anything. Right? Yeah, yeah. But then at the same time, all these clinicians, and obviously they're doing incredible work. They're making silly decisions like. That a patient needs to come into a hospital and get blood taken 24 times within a month. You know, and this is, this is again why I find the clinical trial so interesting, because of course it's about the science and about if the drug works, but I think people get so caught up with the science that they forget about the common sense of the human side of it.
Right? Yeah. You know, and so a lot of the decisions we made were maybe let's not do 24 blood draws that month. Maybe let's only do six. And when they come in to do those blood draws, let's chat to them about their symptoms and let's do this and let's do that, and let's give them a pack that they can take home and talk to their kids about treatment that they're having.
Nice, clear brochure, you know, simple stuff. You know, guess what? That person, all the studies that we did for that particular instance, more likely to stay on the trial, not only stay on the trial, but adhere to the things that they're meant to do. And so the money that, that saves that business in the end.
So yeah. Very interesting.
[00:18:25] Jens Heitland: Yeah. Going from business case to the thing that you already touched on, behavior change, provocative AI will disrupt every single business in the world. Yeah. In the ne I think in the next, personally, I think in the next 12 months,
[00:18:42] Kara Prosser: yeah. It's happening.
[00:18:43] Jens Heitland: Yeah. So. How can the approach of co-design, how can the, the work that you do and you did over the last decade, help organizations to go through this?
Because we are all not used to this fast changes and dramatically changing. If we just look into what AI can do already today with, if we just look into the last three months. Almost all administrative tasks that are digital can be done by an ai and you don't need a person at all.
[00:19:12] Kara Prosser: Yeah.
[00:19:12] Jens Heitland: In this. Yeah.
Yeah. So that means an organization has maybe 60, 70, 80, depends on the com company. Less need of humans. And how do we deal with that?
[00:19:25] Kara Prosser: Maybe, let me come back to that question. Maybe let me talk to you. I'm a bit distracted with like, I guess. Well, I mean, I'm really excited about AI for, for, for lots of reasons.
I mean, I think, I think, um, I think at the moment what I'm finding in my business and kind of driving design four is I had so many people come to me being like, oh my God, we've been so focused on people losing jobs and our ai, our AI strategy, um, that we don't really know who our customers are anymore.
You know, we don't really know who our patients are anymore. We don't really know who. These individuals who run these clinical trials in the sites are we, we dunno what they're doing, what technology they're interacting with. So I think people have been rightly so, so distracted with it. Yeah. That they've kind of lost sight of what's happening with, with the people.
Employees are part of that. At the same time, while everyone's been very distracted by ai. Our behavior has, has changed. You know, like, I'll give you a really small example. I was like a real set and forget girl with all my bills and finances and stuff, you know what I mean? It's kind of like I didn't really care if I was paying an extra 10 pounds a month.
Like it's done, it's sorted. I'm a busy entrepreneur, I'm not, you know, gonna be sitting around, shopping around for. Octopus energy versus whatever. Now I do. You know, so within the course of my adult life, it's a whole bunch of things that, and everyone's the same, right? Everyone's got these examples of things that they have changed and so.
It is this super exciting time for businesses who need to kind of get back on the straight and narrow and look at their customers and what they're doing. Yeah. You know, how could another elect electricity company pick me up at the moment? You know what I mean? So it's this wild time where people are changing behavior.
That is such a big opportunity for businesses.
[00:21:14] Jens Heitland: Yeah, I agree.
[00:21:15] Kara Prosser: And so I actually, yeah, so that's kind of, I think the first. Part of excitement from a human-centered design point of view is like, and AI to me is, it's, it's a technology, right? So throughout my career, you know, we've always designed for the human first and then what technology can enable that experience to happen, right?
So then for me it's like this, this new vehicle of, of experiences that we can deliver for people. I think the other like very tangible thing, then we get to co-design. Is we can make and test things quicker than we've ever been able to before. Yeah. Hugely. You know?
[00:21:51] Jens Heitland: Yeah.
[00:21:51] Kara Prosser: Like within a co-design session, we could make five websites if we wanted to and actually really mock it up end to end.
So I think that kind of testing of ideas is, is, is so, so, so, so, so exciting. So I think the businesses don't really have any excuses anymore in terms of like, how do we reach our customers? So it's about like. Yeah, getting to know them, understanding what their needs are, and then testing things with co-creating things with them, testing things with them.
It's such an exciting time to be an experienced designer. Anyone out there who says like, the design process is dead. I don't know what they're doing.
[00:22:29] Jens Heitland: I feel like No, I, I, I, I agree. I think it's. What, what is interesting, when I worked in, in big design company in the past before we met, um, one of the things that I learned is in the end, how, how do you ask questions?
[00:22:42] Kara Prosser: Yeah.
[00:22:42] Jens Heitland: And, and that's what it is all about. You just need to like, ask different questions and then utilize AI as much as you can and then find out how, how can you solve the problem? And you have now super intelligence that you can ask questions. So why not utilizing it and then figuring out what is, and then looking into the behaviors and looking into, oh, so if this happens, what was then changing with that behavior?
[00:23:08] Kara Prosser: Do you think, I've got a question for you now. Do you think, um, do. So in terms of that, Alexa, as you know, like one of the like techniques with human-centered design is kind of really getting to the root cause of like the thoughts, feelings, behaviors, motivations. Right? And so we use like the five why technique and stuff like that.
Like why, why, why, why, why, so you can design the root cause, right? Do you think that AI agents and bots and tools have that sophistication of critical thinking?
[00:23:41] Jens Heitland: I think so there's, there's the possibility obviously depends on the model and depends how, how far it goes in the end. Yes. But I think what it it's never going to have is this human element.
And that's, that's I think where we can combine it because like we are sitting now together is different than you talking to Chachi DP or any of the other models.
[00:24:00] Kara Prosser: Yeah.
[00:24:00] Jens Heitland: And even that Jet GTP could ask you all the question, the human connection, the body language, and you see. The, the things in between will be always different if you do that human to human, and I think that's, that's the opportunity that we have.
We can transcribe conversations and then take out the knowledge of the conversation, then add the human element to it.
[00:24:20] Kara Prosser: A hundred percent. And that's right. Those tools are just accelerating exactly how we can get that insight into action quicker. Right.
[00:24:25] Jens Heitland: Exactly.
[00:24:25] Kara Prosser: And like, I mean, you know, back in, back in my, like when I first started again, when I was a baby experience designer, like we used to go out in the field and like watch people and talk to them and write up all the notes and like go through the notes with highlight Exactly.
And post the notes and stuff like that. Now I can just run it all through a tool. Right. You know, so it, so I think, I think the other kind of interesting part of AI in the sort of human centered design world at the moment is this concept of. Um, synthetic data and like synthetic personas. And so what that is, um, I'm sure you know all about it, but it's, it's kind of where we use a little bit of real insight, a little bit of real data to kind of mock up
[00:25:01] Jens Heitland: Yeah.
[00:25:02] Kara Prosser: Potential futures, potential scenarios and things like that. And, and I don't think that world is particularly sophisticated at the moment, but I think it's so interesting. I'm speaking to a client at the moment who is quite brave and kind of wants to do some work in that space. 'cause it's kind of like.
Okay, so we can design to right now to what we know about people and how they're behaving and how they're using this product or service. But like, what are your customers gonna look like in five years? Yeah. You know, and how, how do you future proof your business? And, and I think that that type of modeling with synthetic data and, and um, trend analysis, again, we used to do it in like an old school way, scroll Google, and make different kind of models and stuff like that.
Like that's kind of accelerated and I think that's quite. Exciting again, from a human centered design world, again, that particular client's like, oh, but you know, is this gonna replace like, you know, people and how do we really know? And I'm like, no, we're still going out and speaking to your customers now.
We've gotta build those models. Yeah. Based on insight today. Right. Um, and I think that's the other part. The another, another thing I'm talking to that particular business about is how do we take all that, like going out and speaking to your customers? Mapping them out with some personas and journey maps and kind of tying their technology roadmap to that.
Coming up with some futuristic personas and looking into the future using synthetic data driven by a AI tools, what's then the mechanism and process to keep that going through the organization over the next five years to hit their very aggressive revenue targets?
[00:26:34] Jens Heitland: Yeah.
[00:26:34] Kara Prosser: You know, so how do we set up a, um.
A customer testing framework, a hypothesis led framework where we can be very quickly testing ideas and new products and services and stuff like that. So, um, yeah, as I said, I just think it's probably the most exciting time
[00:26:51] Jens Heitland: in
[00:26:51] Kara Prosser: the, in history to be an experience designer.
[00:26:53] Jens Heitland: Agree. The, the thing to that is from, from, I mean, I come from, from an innovation background.
The, the key part of that is you design something that is, that is. In, in a time where everything is changing or a lot of things are changing, you can only work with hypothesis to understand what are the possibilities. If you don't do this, you, you just keep on doing what you have been doing over the last decades, and that's most probably not going to work.
[00:27:20] Kara Prosser: Yeah.
[00:27:20] Jens Heitland: So give you an example. I think it was two oh. 10, 2012 in ikea. We did, uh, like future workshops where we looked years and years ahead and, and then we mapped out different scenarios. What if this happens? And we, at that time even we talked about what if we have all like autonomous driving cars and that, I mean, that's now ages ago and we talked about that and what could be the business model Yeah.
For IKEA at that time.
[00:27:49] Kara Prosser: Yeah.
[00:27:49] Jens Heitland: And I think this questions. Every organization need to, to look into, if AI is happening and this kind of things are happening in our industry and that behaviors are going to change, what does it mean for our business model? Is that business model still there? Uh, working our products or services still working?
And then, then you need to redesign. And you can only do that with different scenarios and like u using you or, or someone who is, who is, who is helping you to do that. Because a lot of organizations, especially in the. More conservative industries. They're not used to that.
[00:28:23] Kara Prosser: No, you're totally right. I mean, you look at pharma, they're, they're, they're so far behind, right?
So far behind. This is why like, I mean, you know, yeah. This is why everyone complains about going to the, I was speaking to someone this morning and I'm complaining about going to the doctor 'cause they had to fill in this form and that form and whatever. And it's like, it's so far behind. This is why I come back to, it's the biggest lowest hanging fruit.
And we have to be thinking differently. And I think, um. And I think for me, like I think, I know there's a lot of people out there who are really worried about ai. I mean, I'm so obsessed and excited by it and I think, I think what I try and tell my clients is like, you know, just come back to the people that like, again, human centered science, why it's such a kind of a, a beautiful practice in a way.
Because it's just coming back to, to people. It's always coming back to people, their behaviors, what they need, whether that's employees, patients, whoever. It's, that's the principle that kind of, that kind of drives it. Um, and so while the world still has people living on it, you know, I feel like hopefully we're always gonna be in work.
Right, Ian?
[00:29:29] Jens Heitland: Yeah, I agree.
[00:29:30] Kara Prosser: Human innovation, human-centered design. Yeah. It always comes back, come, comes back to that.
[00:29:35] Jens Heitland: If you, if you look into the future, where do you see your business going over the next, let's say if we meet again in two years from now, in the best case, where, where is it?
[00:29:45] Kara Prosser: Oh, that's such a good question.
I'm so sort of here and now a little bit just starting out. Um, I mean, I think for me, you know, the, the bigger and juicier and more important, the challenge, the, the better. Like that's just the work that I naturally sort of go out. I don't know why. Yeah, I just, I really. And just really believe that this way of working can, can make a difference.
I'm probably like a bit crazy. Maybe that's a good thing. Don't they say that the craziest people are the only ones who can save, save the world.
[00:30:21] Jens Heitland: Agree.
[00:30:21] Kara Prosser: Yeah. Um, so I think it'll be kind of getting back to that more, um, multi continent sort of work around. Yeah. Climate change. Eradicating malaria, um, you know, global healthcare challenges on, on a huge scale.
That type of work is hard work, you know, and so it's just about building the foundations of design for, to be robust enough to go after that work and deliver outcomes in that way, I think is where, you know. So I'll probably be like in the depths of Rwanda or something in two years. Yeah. So you can come and you guys can come and visit me
[00:31:02] Jens Heitland: and always we, we can do a podcast in Rwanda.
[00:31:03] Kara Prosser: Do
[00:31:03] Jens Heitland: a podcast.
[00:31:03] Kara Prosser: Exactly. Well, I was just there, as you know. So I really just, I love that country.
[00:31:07] Jens Heitland: So from, from from your home base perspective, are you, are you going to be in the UK still? I mean, we are recording this in London now. What, what is your perspective from a vision pers like, do you want to build something that's global?
From the get go. Do you want to focus more on Europe? What, what's, what's your vision on that?
[00:31:26] Kara Prosser: I'm like, has my mom sent you that question? Um, I mean, I, you know, all the work I've done for the last 10 years has been global. It is global. I mean, it is, it is definitely global from the get go. As you know, I do a lot of work in healthcare, a lot of work in pharma.
They're global organizations. Um, so it, I already see it as a global thing. I feel like London is the capital of the world, so it's a good place to be for now, geographically. Um, but there's, yeah, so. Yeah, de definitely global. Um, you know, I started my career in Australia. We still have a lot of big challenges in Australia.
You know, I've done a lot of work with indigenous communities there. Um, they have the worst health, health outcomes out of any community in the world. Um, I still feel like there's a lot of work to be done in Australia, in, in that space.
[00:32:17] Jens Heitland: Mm.
[00:32:17] Kara Prosser: Um, and obviously that's my home and I'll probably end up there one day.
Um, but I think for now being a little bit more central
[00:32:25] Jens Heitland: Yeah.
[00:32:26] Kara Prosser: Is kind of for me in the business kind of where I need to be.
[00:32:31] Jens Heitland: So if, if we have a listener that would love to reach out to you, what are the best ways to connect to you?
[00:32:39] Kara Prosser: You can connect with me on LinkedIn, Kara Prosser, you can come to my website and some of the stories I've been sharing with you today, those case studies are on the website.
So it's designed for uk, so design, and then for FOR. So designed for people, business, all that kind of stuff. So design for uk. So you can write me an email, um, from the website or my email is hello at Design four uk. So lots of different ways you can contact me. Um, and yeah, very excited to kind of. You know, work with lots of different businesses over the next, you know, couple of decades.
[00:33:13] Jens Heitland: Years. Years.
[00:33:14] Kara Prosser: Yeah. Exactly.
[00:33:15] Jens Heitland: I'll definitely follow you as, as always, and we stay in touch and we'll record another episode in two years then, and see where, where we are with
[00:33:24] Kara Prosser: Okay.
[00:33:24] Jens Heitland: With the business. Thank you very much for the conversation. Thank you. Amazing to meet you again.
[00:33:28] Kara Prosser: Yes, you too. Thanks for having me.