EP241: Unleashing Creativity & Experience Design with Dorchess De Koning
Discover how Dorchess De Koning uses embodiment, play, and experience design to transform teams, foster human connection, and spark innovation. A powerful episode on leading with creativity, purpose, and awe.
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In this episode, I had the pleasure of speaking with Dorchess De Koning, a truly creative soul whose work blends psychology, embodiment, and experience design in fascinating ways. Dorchess isn’t just someone who talks about creativity, she lives it. Her entire career, from childhood to founding her own academy, has been about making people feel, connect, and innovate through experience.
From Storytelling to Designing Experiences
Dorchess shared how her journey started as a child designing themed birthday parties and storytelling adventures. Even back then, it wasn’t about decoration or performance, it was about crafting meaningful, immersive experiences. That same philosophy now runs through all her work, from team development to brand strategy.
What struck me most is how her path didn’t follow a straight line , it wove through psychology, interior design, healthcare, and ultimately into the field of embodiment and human-centered experience design. But as she said during our conversation, there’s a red thread that connects it all: the belief that innovation is human.
We Are Not Just Walking Brains
One of the most powerful insights Dorchess brought to this episode was the concept of embodiment. She challenges the modern tendency to live entirely in our heads , what she calls being a “walking brain” , and instead invites us to reconnect with our bodies, our senses, and the present moment.
She explained how our bodies carry wisdom. When we tune into that , through movement, discomfort, emotion , we not only learn more about ourselves but also become more capable of truly connecting with others. That kind of authentic connection is at the heart of every successful team and every meaningful innovation.
How We Work Together Matters
We talked a lot about the workplace, especially in a post-COVID world. Like many of you, I’ve seen how returning to the office often feels flat. People sit in Zoom meetings from separate desks, with no real interaction or energy. Dorchess described how simple, intentional moments of connection , play, shared experiences, even physical discomfort , can radically shift how teams relate to each other.
Her approach isn’t about flashy team-building exercises. It’s about designing purposeful, embodied experiences that allow people to feel psychological safety, offer feedback, learn, and collaborate. Whether she’s working with teams outdoors in nature or facilitating group movement sessions, everything is crafted with intention.
Workations, Playfulness, and Curiosity
Dorchess shared how she designs workations , immersive, off-site experiences where teams not only connect but also grow. These are not corporate retreats in luxury hotels. They are co-created spaces where reflection, play, and learning happen in natural environments. Her goal? To create a testing ground for new behavior and to awaken curiosity through movement and presence.
What I loved is how she described play not as something frivolous, but as a gateway to innovation. Fun and serious learning can coexist , and in fact, the best breakthroughs often come from letting go of our need to “perform” and instead just experience.
Designing Experiences for Brands
Our conversation also touched on how these principles apply to brand strategy. Dorchess works with companies to go beyond selling , to create real emotional connection. For her, brand experiences should be sensory, memorable, and rooted in authenticity. It’s not about reaching everyone. It’s about making a deep impression on the right people.
She believes that intimate, carefully designed experiences are far more impactful than mass-market messaging. And I agree. People remember how something made them feel far longer than they remember the details of what you said or sold.
What Makes Her Keynotes Different
Towards the end of our chat, I asked Dorchess about her keynotes. If you ever get the chance to see her speak , take it. She doesn’t just present slides. She designs a moment. A twist. Something unexpected that jolts the audience out of passive listening and into emotional presence. It’s not entertainment , it’s experience.
As she put it, “When people are surprised, they remember. They absorb. And they connect.”
Dorchess closed the episode with one of the most beautiful calls to action I’ve heard: “Find something that is a little bit out of the ordinary , and do it.” Whether it’s walking backwards, taking a new route, or flipping something upside down at the grocery store, she reminded us how powerful it is to bring a sense of awe and wonder into daily life.
This conversation left me energized and reminded me of why I started this podcast: to uncover the deeply human side of innovation. Dorchess doesn’t just help organizations change , she helps people come alive.
If you’re curious about experience design, creativity, and leading with your whole self , this episode is one you don’t want to miss.
Highlights:
00:00 Introduction and Personal Background
01:00 Meeting in the Netherlands
02:44 First Encounter with Experience Design
04:31 Transition to Entrepreneurship
05:42 Exploring Interior Design
07:04 The Importance of Embodiment
11:08 Leadership and Team Connection
17:38 Challenges in Modern Workplaces
21:56 Brainstorming with Silly Costumes
22:37 The Power of Experience Design
23:27 Curated Activities for Deeper Learning
24:17 Introducing Workation: Work and Vacation Combined
26:15 Physical Exercises for Team Connection
30:27 Experience Design for Brands
32:42 Convincing the CFO: The Value of Experiential Marketing
36:42 Unique Keynote Experiences
39:19 Embracing Awe and Playfulness
Guest Links:
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/dorchess/
Business: https://aweacademy.live/
Jens Heitland Links:
Website: https://www.jensheitland.com/
Business: https://www.heitlandmediagroup.com/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jensheitland/
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/JensHeitlandofficial/
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TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@jensheitland
X/Twitter: https://twitter.com/jensheitland
Newsletter: https://www.jensheitland.com/newsletter
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@jens-heitland
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Transcript:
Jens Heitland Podcast: before we go into the experience topics, tell us a little bit more about yourself.
Like who are you and how did you get to who you are today and where you are today?
Dorchess: Okay, well, um. I guess, uh, the, the three words that characterize me most are creativity, um, curiosity and courage. So I like them to begin with a CI love words. I love poetry. I love being creative with words and also with names. So sometimes I get people's names wrong and I. Name's wrong, and I create something else to fill the, the blank.
Um, so that, that tells you something about me. Um, I love problem solving in, in new ways. Um, and I've always done this as a child. I, I, I liked, um, figuring things out and, um, uh, trying to create my own things, my own versions of things. So, uh, yeah, that's, uh, that's a lot about me.
Jens Heitland Podcast: So you are, I'm going [00:01:00] deeper. Um, you are living in the Netherlands and that's, and we, we didn't meet in the Netherlands. Maybe that's, we we can start that. How, how we met.
Dorchess: Okay.
Jens Heitland Podcast: way long time ago. Maybe you start and I will, I will chip in.
Dorchess: Okay. Well, I was wondering through a castle with many different rooms and corridors, um, lots of things were going on. Weird and wonderful workshops. Um, and yeah, I think, uh, maybe we met in the dining room. Do you remember which, which room we met in
Jens Heitland Podcast: I have no idea.
Dorchess: it? It's, it's really funny because you, you run into people in the corridors. You, you find somebody during a workshop and sometimes during a meal. Although we did try to have silent meals. I remember that. Um, just to have some time to take it all in the stuff that we did, we'd been experiencing. Yeah, I think I must have met you outside.
Jens Heitland Podcast: I have no idea.
Dorchess: Specific.
Jens Heitland Podcast: Yeah, so we, we, we were in a, in this Poland, in, in this [00:02:00] castle in Poland. Not, not Poland, in Castle. Castle in Poland. we were at an experience design conference and, and, and really experienced ourself. What experiences are and as well like discovered with others, like how to build a design experience with experts from around the world.
And that's also one of the the big things that you are well known for, which is experience design for different topics. And one of the things is obviously the brand part.
Dorchess: Mm-hmm.
Jens Heitland Podcast: how did you get first into experience design
Dorchess: Yeah.
Jens Heitland Podcast: point? Because what I have heard is that your career. Came from a completely different background.
Dorchess: Yes. Yes, that's right. So when I was a child, I went to a boarding school, um, and that was actually my first encounter with experience design. So they had had birthday parties with a theme, and the cake, for instance, would have the, the, the, the shape and the colors of the theme. Um, one [00:03:00] time we had a class party and it was a Narnia party, so it had.
All the characters of the Nia books, uh, in the, of the Nia film in the, in the party. And we had the marmalade roll made by the beavers, and my two teachers were the beavers actually in beaver costume. And we had a real lion chasing us. Uh, one of the teachers was dressed up as a lion. So that's kind of where my, my, um, getting into a story, like really embodying a story and feeling a part of that story, that, that began in my very early childhood.
After that, I started designing birthday parties for friends, for my brothers and sisters, for my parents. Even when they had an anniversary, I would create a whole story around it and create different foods that they could taste to taste, love, or to taste surprise. So this was all, um, very much a part of my growing up.
And then I had to go to university and, uh, you know, was made to choose something and, and I have really wide [00:04:00] interest in, in all sorts of things. So it was very difficult for me to choose something I. So I thought, ah, maybe I should, you know, get into the psychology of things and, and see how the brain works and how we make decisions and why we behave the way we do.
So I got into mental health science, um, and my mom's a therapist as well, so it kind of runs, runs in the family. And I thought, ah, maybe I should help people figure their brains out and figure out the problems they have. Um, but once I, uh, had finished my studies, I wanted to. Um, start a business of my own because I felt like the regular healthcare system in the Netherlands wasn't great.
And, um, they only had a specific number of sessions per child, um, to, to help, or, or per, per, per, per person with, with a problem. And then your problem should be figured out and solved. And I really don't believe in that approach. So I decided to found my own company and, um, I started Orca Family Matters, which was, um.[00:05:00]
Uh, a way for me to get into the homes of people and see and observe their family situation and help them on the spot, um, and really go into their, their story rather than having them come to an office and doing all the formal stuff. Um, and it also gave me the possibility to use a more playful approach in my, um, therapies.
But soon enough, when it was up and running, I got slightly bored with that because I am an entrepreneur. I noticed that I really like to create new things and, and keep designing things. So I thought, okay, so how can my, um, art the, the, the, the thing that I love, making things, how can that become a part of my job?
And so I started, um, interior design, uh, and I started a business with interior design for.
Jens Heitland Podcast: different.
Dorchess: Slightly different still in the healthcare sector because I did it for hospitals and waiting rooms. Um, and also for hospitality industry to make waiting more fun [00:06:00] because I hated waiting. I hate waiting at stations for the bus.
I hate waiting for a doctor's appointment. And I thought, how can we make the waiting, uh, a different experience so people don't even think about the fact that they're waiting? So this is how I got into my interior design label. Um, and after doing that for a few years, uh, I was ready for a new challenge and I had grown more into the realm of embodiment because I felt like a lot of things and a lot of things people were doing were, were very brainy.
It's all very much here that the knowledge is up there and the, the way we produce things is, is all, you know, very much up there in the head and we have a whole body to work with, but. I felt like something was lacking in my own life. Like I felt like I sometimes I was just a, a walking brain and it didn't give me energy.
And I need energy and I need movement, and I need, uh, excitement from experiencing new [00:07:00] things. And I thought, okay, I need to incorporate more of that movement into my life. And, um, so I started studying embodiment, which means to actually, the, the, the main catch phrase is when you are, um. Body is more than just a brain taxi.
So acknowledging that the body has so much more to offer in terms of, uh, signals and, and senses that when we become aware of them, we can learn a lot about what we want and what we don't want. What feels, what feels like the right decision? Um, so from, from embodiment, I got more into team training and working with groups of people to see how they could learn to in incorporate.
Which is literally embody, um, their wisdom, the wisdom of their bodies into work and into working together with other people and also being more connected to themselves. Um, it's, it really fascinates me that when you're more connected to yourself, [00:08:00] you're much more able to then connect to another person.
You become much more authentic. There's much more connection. When there's more connection between you and the other, there's much more scope for learning. So you open up to learning and then when you learn stuff together, there's much more scope for collaboration and effective collaboration. So, um, yeah, that intrigued me so much that I, uh, decided to start an academy and that's how All Academy came to be.
And the name is not for nothing. 'cause I believe that awe is actually one of the fundamental ingredients for, for life and for joy and. Experiencing liveliness.
Jens Heitland Podcast: So the, the interesting thing that, that, that I am hearing from, from you, there's though that it, it feels odd, like distinct things, but in the end there is this red thread
Dorchess: Yes.
Jens Heitland Podcast: kind of molding all the things together of what you are doing.
Dorchess: Yes, that's right. Yeah. [00:09:00] And it was, it's also very much a search of mine to, to, to, to figure out how to put my own interests and the things I was learning into my work. Um, which I also encourage people in teams to do what you bring yourself to work. What have you got to offer? What are you going to offer to this team that's unique to you?
And then how can you make sure these qualities are noticed and also appreciated? And then how can they contribute to the whole, to the, the functioning of the team and the, and, and what you offer as a team.
Jens Heitland Podcast: Yeah. Okay, so I have been working quite a bit in very large corporate, and this feels like it's not happening. Well, you just said it's like the embodiment and, and bring your whole, like your whole being to work it.
Dorchess: Yeah.
Jens Heitland Podcast: I have experienced it with some companies, but I, at least my personal experience is not there yet.
What would you answer to that one?
Dorchess: Well, I very much agree because I think a [00:10:00] lot of it is still about production. We are trained in school for production. We need to have results. We need to head, uh, hit the deadline. We need to, um, you know, that there's so much pressure on people, um, and there's very little attention for. The human beings that are in the organization.
We call them human resource, um, but I think it's, it's not the right word. We should think about human beings. How can we be as humans, and how can we use our humanity to make a, an organization thrive? I think it's absolutely possible if you invest in the people and then the productivity or the, the results will follow from there.
Jens Heitland Podcast: How would we go about that? So let's say if, if we take me as an example, I was manager in, uh, an international company and had like teams across the world. how, how, how would I, or how should I approach that from a, [00:11:00] from a, let's say, just, just basic perspective of what I can do and then we go maybe later on how, how you do that and, and how you help companies.
As well.
Dorchess: Yeah, so you were the leader of several teams internationally. Okay. So with with leadership, I really think that you set the example, you're the example for the team. So if you create space, um, be it online or offline, it's become a lot more easy to do things is as a group online because of, uh, all of the, the technology, the technological, um, developments.
So I would say as a leader, you need to make sure and facilitate that there is an hour a week, or. Um, uh, a, a fixed moment in the, in, in, maybe in the day even to have a short check-in a game, something to, to connect to each other and to start the day or to start the week in a positive way. And then from there, I would suggest you have team days in which people get together and actually, um, figure things [00:12:00] out together.
Um, by playing by, by inviting them into playfulness. I prefer that to be outside of the office. So, um, I usually take teams outdoors into nature and that way there's also awe there. There's like, oh wow, I hadn't, I haven't been here for a while, I haven't hadn't noticed this. And it really opens up your, uh, awareness.
So I would definitely say take people outside.
Jens Heitland Podcast: I love that because one of the things that I've experienced, it's quite a while back, where one of my managers took us into, it like a camp,
Dorchess: Mm-hmm.
Jens Heitland Podcast: and we were sleeping under the stars that that was like a roof, but it was like open still
Dorchess: Mm-hmm.
Jens Heitland Podcast: We spent like the whole weekend together and we, we like you, like you said, like we played games in the middle of the night.
We had fires, like, like go. And it's so different when you work in a large corporation, like I was time
Dorchess: Yeah.
Jens Heitland Podcast: do [00:13:00] things like this. Because normally when you have meetings, you go in fancy hotels
Dorchess: Yeah.
Jens Heitland Podcast: like everyone has their own bathroom and every and, and here is like. We slept on next to the fireplace and was so radically different.
But what was interesting for, for me, just reflecting on that experience, that the end it like we bonded with each other in a completely different way than we would ever be able in like normal office or even hotel. And
Dorchess: Yes.
Jens Heitland Podcast: it, it's, it's radically different. And it was super bonding
Dorchess: Yeah.
Jens Heitland Podcast: two days.
Dorchess: Yeah, it is, it has, it has an incredible impact on the way you connect to yourself and to people, even discomfort from being in a different place and, and experiencing the weather, for instance, sometimes it's really cold or sometimes it's rainy. And let's see, what, how does the group respond? How does everybody deal with that and how do you support each other in that?
So one time I had a team and we, and it was raining all day and I kind of got fed up with it myself [00:14:00] after a while under the umbrella. And, and we had about 20 umbrellas. Um, so I said, uh, let's take a break and go inside. And they said, no, no, we are still working on our quest. We need to be here.
Jens Heitland Podcast: Oh good.
Dorchess: So it was really great 'cause they kind of helped me to stick around and to, to, to still be there even though it was a little, a little bit uncomfortable.
Jens Heitland Podcast: Yeah, love to go, go deeper into what, what you said is like connect to yourself, because I think it's for, for me at least. Coming from that world is obvious that we should do this as a team and we should connect all with each other. But I think I hear and what I observe right now with a lot of people in this world, maybe is saying Covid was one of the things.
That's why things happen. I am not sure about that. I like, it's not my, my expertise, but it, it just feels like a lot of people have problem with that connecting to your true self and somehow struggle with it.
Dorchess: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think we, [00:15:00] sorry. Ask you a question.
Jens Heitland Podcast: No, what, what do you observe and, and, and did you see any shifts over the last years?
If we just take the last three to five years?
Dorchess: Yeah. So what I observe is that we get so busy with the responsibilities that we have. So it is all up here, um, it's planning mode strategy, it's um, Excel sheets. It's a documentation. It's very much the digital interface as well, which is also, it's very little, um, body work only with the top of a finger, you know, um, click of a mouse and, uh, and the rest of all it is here, up, up here.
Uh, so I've noticed there is, um, distancing from ourselves. Also in the evening we wind down by watching Netflix again, it's not being present, it's, it's being a. Couch, uh, sloth. So it's good to rest. I really think that's good. And at the same time, is it aware, is it active resting? [00:16:00] I, I personally, I believe in active rest much more by going for a walk outside, looking up, looking around you, um, seeing so much more, um, of what nature does as a natural being.
Um, I think that for me at least, that gives me a lot more. Peace and rest than just being on the couch watching Netflix.
Jens Heitland Podcast: Yeah, a
Dorchess: So,
Jens Heitland Podcast: I
Dorchess: I, since covid, it has changed a little bit because, uh, people have become more aware that they need to be outside. And also I feel there's more awareness around mental health, mental health issues these days, which is a good thing.
Jens Heitland Podcast: Yeah. I think that's, that, that's a critical part. It's, it's more before, I think it was there as well, but nobody was reflecting on it
Dorchess: Yeah.
Jens Heitland Podcast: or was not openly talking about it because it was seen as a, you are a weak or.
Dorchess: Yeah.
Jens Heitland Podcast: It's like it doesn't fit into society, but I think now it's, it's, it's more and more present that people have [00:17:00] burnout and
Dorchess: Yeah.
Jens Heitland Podcast: definition of burnout is more clear than before as well.
Dorchess: Yes. Yeah. And I'm glad there's more. Um, I think, I think leaders are also learning to talk about this more, to, to really put it. Open up the space for, for having a conversation rather than saying, oh, we, we cannot bother so and so they have a burnout. Let's, let's neglect them. But rather appreciating, we, we miss our team member and let's send them a card or let's, you know, so there's, there's a more, um, connected way of, of dealing with, uh, mental health issues.
Yeah.
Jens Heitland Podcast: Yeah, One of the things I feel a lot of companies, including myself, struggle with is this back to the office theme, where we have learned during a certain time that like online meetings as are quite efficient if you have a global and international organization
Dorchess: Yes.
Jens Heitland Podcast: [00:18:00] People that work concentrated will get more done.
Dorchess: Mm-hmm.
Jens Heitland Podcast: then what? What's happening in that that I'm trying to build a little bit bridge towards experience design. What's quite interesting then you go to the office and everyone sits up for themselves, goes into, let's say zoom or video meetings,
Dorchess: Yeah,
Jens Heitland Podcast: their meetings with other people that are not in the office.
And then maybe you have a coffee break in between or a lunch, but then everyone goes home and you have not connect.
Dorchess: yeah,
Jens Heitland Podcast: It's fascinating for me. It's like you bring people back to the office and
Dorchess: yeah.
Jens Heitland Podcast: It's not happening.
Dorchess: Yes.
Jens Heitland Podcast: designing experiences.
Dorchess: Exactly. Yeah,
Jens Heitland Podcast: It is crazy.
Dorchess: it is. And I think, um, one of the reasons is that people feel that this is not my job. So making, uh, an effort to have a team meeting or making an effort to, to organize something special, if it's not part of your job, job description, you don't do it because efficiency rules, um, and I think, [00:19:00] uh, making the effort will actually.
Benefit yourself because by giving to your group, you, you, you also receive appreciation. And it is just a lot of fun to create fun for people. And then at the same time, the, the, the environment at the office, the energy at the office will, will increase and there'll be a lot more interaction because of these moments that have been created, especially to, to do something other than a business meeting.
Jens Heitland Podcast: Yeah.
Dorchess: But I think it is absolutely, uh, it, it needs to be, uh, uh, agreed upon. As with, as a team, this is what we want. We want to create moments of connection outside of work stuff.
Jens Heitland Podcast: Yeah. And I think it, it should be even a rule somehow because if not, it's not going to
Dorchess: Yeah.
Jens Heitland Podcast: 'cause what, I still feel is. Depending on the organization, of course there's still like, if, going back to what you said in the beginning, if management or leaders are not the good example, it's
Dorchess: Yeah,
Jens Heitland Podcast: to happen.
So they need to do it [00:20:00] first.
Dorchess: exactly.
Jens Heitland Podcast: need to do fun stuff in the
Dorchess: Yep.
Jens Heitland Podcast: a physical space that engages other people in a completely different way.
Dorchess: Yes.
Jens Heitland Podcast: the end, what I truly believe in is you build the true connections between people and. that in a not only work, I mean, it's still work if you're interacting with people at work,
Dorchess: Mm-hmm.
Jens Heitland Podcast: but more in a fund that creates energies that you don't normally don't have, and the efficiency goes up with
Dorchess: Absolutely. Absolutely.
Jens Heitland Podcast: And I'm pretty sure that's proven somewhere, but it's just that a lot of people don't see this as an effective way in getting people, like being more efficient. It's just counterintuitive for a lot of people.
Dorchess: Yeah. And sometimes I'll, I'll ask them why they, uh, do not have these moments with their team. And then, then they say, well, if I do that, if we engage in an hour of, of, you know, silliness or, or playfulness. Um, our [00:21:00] work is still there. It is still waiting for us. So then I have this conversation with them.
All right, so how come this workload is so high? What, what's going on there? What, why do you feel like you cannot even take even a 10 minute break as a team or, or maybe an hour a week? Um, because the work will pile up. I think this is also very much in the mind that we feel this pressure building up and, and if there is constant pressure already.
And it means that an hour of team building does not fit in, then I think there's something seriously wrong with the workload,
Jens Heitland Podcast: A
Dorchess: which is a different conversation to have, but still a, a worthwhile one.
Jens Heitland Podcast: Yeah, I agree a hundred percent. And what, what I have experienced that's like, that was 2015 or something. What was interesting to see? Is we did, for example, a brainstorming on innovation topics because I was working in the innovation
Dorchess: Mm-hmm.
Jens Heitland Podcast: then one, one workshop was [00:22:00] we need to do brainstorm about new business strategies and how we do things completely different from a business perspective.
And then the, the team member that was facilitating was giving us like silly costumes and we all needed to dress up for the brainstorming, including the big bosses. This was one of the best outcomes we have had ever from
Dorchess: Yeah.
Jens Heitland Podcast: perspective because we were just dressed silly.
Dorchess: Yeah.
Jens Heitland Podcast: didn't force us to do silly things.
It was like, like you do brainstorming and you see the top CEO in front of you wearing silly stuff easy difficult.
Dorchess: exactly. And, and I think, um, experience design can be pretty simple. Like a simple intervention like that can increase the, the energy and the way people engage with it, uh, significantly. However, I also think that if you design an experience, um. Very thoroughly. So you create, um, a certain, you could say a route [00:23:00] that people take and that people have their own agency in and what, what they choose to do and what they don't do.
And then reflecting on what happens there that will actually, um, make, make it a learning, uh, experience. Because if you have just fun experiences, yeah, you can go bowling with your team, but that doesn't mean the team will actually learn something together. That doesn't mean they will. Develop themselves professionally or personally, they might get a little bit better at bowling, who knows?
Um, but I, I don't believe in only activities. I really believe in curated activities that will, um, involve sensing. That will involve like, okay, I'm feeling reluctance, or now I'm feeling group pressure, or now I'm feeling anxiety because I'm afraid that I'll be embarrassed. Or, um, oh, I'm having so much fun.
Suddenly I don't feel quite as constrained as I normally do. So just expanding the, the experiences that you have as a person and also tapping into, [00:24:00] uh, what, what am I made of? Like, what experiences have shaped me and that, what, why do they make me behave the way I do now? So it's, it's deeper work than just having fun.
But I do believe the way in is having fun and inviting play to the, to the boardroom.
Jens Heitland Podcast: let, let's go into examples. So one, one of the things that you have shared with me was the video where you work with the team outdoors as well, and that was like, uh, a team, I think you called it workation.
Dorchess: Yeah, that's right.
Jens Heitland Podcast: you can explain what that is,
Dorchess: Yeah.
Jens Heitland Podcast: like how, how did you design this and, and maybe without naming the company and the team, what were the problems that before you started designing it, and why did they start to do this Workation?
Dorchess: Yeah, so one of the, um, the, the things they mentioned was that their three teams work in different, um, places, uh, in, uh, in the country they work in. So they never actually meet, some of them had never actually met each other before, but they do need to [00:25:00] work together. So one reason to get together was. Let's have some time in which we can get to know each other and get to know how we work.
Um, because online, like you say, it becomes very efficient and you don't really learn about each other. Um, so that was one of the reasons. And also, uh, learning how to give each other feedback. Sometimes it can be really difficult to say something to a colleague that. They might misinterpret or they might feel criticized or judged.
Um, so learning how to communicate well is, is also very much a, uh, reason to have a, an offsite together or a workation. So the workation aspect of it is it's work, but it's also a vacation. So it's time away from the office together with your colleagues. That's kind of work, I would say. I wouldn't choose to go on vacation with my colleagues.
However, if it's a combination of. Being away in a, in interesting environment. Um, the beauty of nature around the comfort of a nice, uh, guest house [00:26:00] or hotel or or place to stay. And then creating, um, um, moments of connection with by, by exercises that I do that in which they really use their bodies. So there, there's, um, I can give you an example a bit later.
I use, uh, physical. Exercises so that people connect with each other in a different way. Normally, as colleagues, especially in a tech organization, you don't touch each other. You, you, you don't bump into each other, and so it, it becomes quite distant and humans need this kind of rough and tumble just, you know, give each other a, a little poke or a tap on the shoulder or whatever.
So also creating that childlike playfulness and bringing that back is, is what I do. Then learning from that by reflecting on it is, is what we do at the Workation. And in the afternoon, people work on their own projects and they can implement the things they've learned in the morning during the trainings, the things they, they learned about themselves.
Maybe they'd like to try something else. So I tell them, [00:27:00] try, try something else this afternoon. Try something you wouldn't normally do. See how it feels. So it's basically a testing ground for new behavior.
Jens Heitland Podcast: That's cool. So you get them out of their context and bring them to a place where they, like half day do exercises to get into, into the future. And the
Dorchess: Yeah.
Jens Heitland Podcast: is still normal work, distant work, whatever
Dorchess: Yep.
Jens Heitland Podcast: they need to do. So in the end, it's like they're not losing anything
Dorchess: Yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah. They can still do their work and they feel often, they feel really energized to do their work in the afternoon and also to do it in a slightly different way.
Jens Heitland Podcast: Yeah, and, and then maybe that's important to underline. What I understand is that everything, what you do is designed with purpose.
Dorchess: Yes.
Jens Heitland Podcast: not like, yeah, now we go for a walk and then we do this. It's,
Dorchess: Yeah.
Jens Heitland Podcast: everything has a purpose and a goal
Dorchess: Yes, that's right.
Jens Heitland Podcast: not that every participants know that, but for [00:28:00] you and that, and that's the experience design part.
It's specifically designed with the purpose in mind so that the things are going to happen that should
Dorchess: Yes. Yes, exactly. And also the, the, the, the main purpose is to create awareness. What's happening within me? What's happening because of you? What's happening with that other person? So once I've observed what's happening with me, then I can also see, and maybe I. See by the body language what the other person is experiencing.
And then I can be curious what's happening with you? Why is this scary to you? Why are you exhausted now? Why are you getting super, um, competition like competitive? Like, so, so there's, there's a lot of, um, interesting observation to be done and I, I like to teach people also how to observe each other more.
Jens Heitland Podcast: Yeah. Can you tell stories of what happened with the team members or teams afterwards when they went through an exercise or like an experience like this?
Dorchess: Yes. So the, at the start, it's always a little bit of, um, [00:29:00] uh, reluctance, uh, uh, do we wanna do this? What are we going to get? And, and so there's a little bit of, um, I guess, uh, apprehension. So I talk about that as well. I say, who's, who's feeling really ready for this? Who's open to this? And then, and then other people will say, yeah, I don't really know what to expect.
I don't really know what this is. And I just acknowledge that that's okay. You can feel that too. Um, then we start with, um, some warmups where people, uh, get to walk around the room. For instance, this is one I use often at their own pace. So first of all, I let say walk around the room, they'll walk, walk, walk.
And I say, wait a minute, is this your own pace? Then people suddenly become aware, oh wait, I'm adapting to the other space, or I'm running with the group, or we're running in a circle. It's very interesting, some groups just immediately run in a circle. It's not what I ask, but they do it. So even noticing, ah, what are we doing and how did we end up like this?
Um, so then I give them exercises to mix that [00:30:00] up to, to find their own pace. Then to speed up and see how it feels, how that body feels. What their balance is like. So are they leaning forward or are they leaning backward? All of these things give so much insight into how you work, how you run, how you interact, and then by knowing that about yourself, it's so different to relate to another being because you have more understanding of how you, how you work, how you do this.
Jens Heitland Podcast: Yeah, that's cool. Let, let's go towards, um, experience design for brands. So we have obviously now talked a lot about. Team dynamics and the ways how teams are interact and individuals as well. How does that work from a, from a experience design when it comes to brands,
Dorchess: Yeah.
Jens Heitland Podcast: that's then more, let's say a corporation, a product, something like
Dorchess: that's right. So what I noticed with brands that I work for is that they have, they need something else. So it can't just be. Flashy sales [00:31:00] message or a, a very slick video, it needs to be something else. So there's a need for a different way to bring your product to the, to the people. Um, and I really believe in, in authentic connection.
So if you want people to buy your product or your service, it needs to have something that will make people feel they connect with that product in a way. So not only physically by EarPods, for instance, they are physically connected to your body. But what does, what does this do to your system, um, and how does it help you interact with other people?
Because we are not meant to be isolated people. We are very much group people. So I invite, when I work for brands, I ask them, what, what is it you want to connect the people to? And is that your, it's not about sales, it's actually about the love for. The quality of your product or maybe the material of your product, something that can be sensed by the whole body, and how can we create something around this so that that [00:32:00] gets highlighted and really gets absorbed by the, by the bodies that will experience it.
And I also believe in smaller group things. So not huge, uh, events with, with hundreds of people. I believe in the, the smaller and intimate, more intimate moments so that it can get more personal and it feels. More safe as well. People get overwhelmed quite easily and when there's smaller groups, there's more time to to integrate and to just be with it.
Jens Heitland Podcast: Yeah, I already see some, some of my friends who are CFOs, it's like, yeah, that's not going to happen. That's that's not leading to sales. Let's double click on that a little bit.
Dorchess: Okay.
Jens Heitland Podcast: what, what, what would you answer to A CFO? That's like, yeah, but that's not driving sales.
Dorchess: Okay. So I would say what, what is, uh, what is more important to you? Is it that you drive sales, that you maximize your sales? Or is it that people are loyal customers or [00:33:00] are, um, are in love with your product? Of course. It really depends what, what it is. But I think, um, driving sales for me is not, not my ideal client.
My ideal client is one that really cares about the, the customer. In the end, this is what it's about. It's about people, people using your product. And if, if I'm excited about the product, I will tell somebody else and they will tell somebody else and they will. So it's, it's a multiplication for free. If you do it well, if you invite people to, to engage with, with whatever it is you are trying to bring to the world, and they feel a true connection, I think that that lands much deeper than, uh, just driving sales.
But yeah, it takes a bit of, um. Experience with that. So I would invite the, the person that is, uh, reluctant or skeptical to, to come and experience it.
Jens Heitland Podcast: Yeah. I, I, I love that because in the end it is indirect sales. So it's long-term
Dorchess: Yes.
Jens Heitland Podcast: maybe you are not selling something right now. I, I still [00:34:00] remember, so I was invited to, uh, store opening. Very simple.
Dorchess: Mm-hmm.
Jens Heitland Podcast: what, what they did was they. Cur curated it in a way that everyone that comes in has an experience with, uh, a specific way of discovering your feet, which is part of shoes, like
Dorchess: Yeah.
Jens Heitland Podcast: shoes.
It's like you put your shoes in. So, and, and a couple of simple things that, of course, like, uh, training mechanisms where you can see how your toes are working. So a, a little bit more playful. And
Dorchess: Yep.
Jens Heitland Podcast: well, like did basic things, which is like, how do you measure your feeds properly and how do you find out? That's more an educational piece, but I still remember, oh, this is long time ago, for sure, like 10, 15 years,
Dorchess: Yeah.
Jens Heitland Podcast: remember that. And the most funny thing is buy that shoes
Dorchess: Yeah,
Jens Heitland Podcast: ever since.
Dorchess: yeah. So it made you a loyal customer because of that experience? Yeah. Yeah.
Jens Heitland Podcast: I still remember it today. [00:35:00] Like I, I know the person that was behind the counter. I don't know the name, but I know if I would meet the lady today, I would, I would tell them you are the lady from the shoe store.
Dorchess: Yeah.
Jens Heitland Podcast: Um, a hundred percent.
Dorchess: Yeah.
Jens Heitland Podcast: So that is definitely something that's maybe what we need to explain to the CFOs. And CFOs just one of the examples because one of my best friends will, he
Dorchess: Mm-hmm.
Jens Heitland Podcast: that straight away. I think there is a possibility if we more go to the experiential site and, maybe they need to find out how to measure that properly long term.
That's maybe a thing what a CEO can go deeper into, or not just the CEOO but more driving it.
Dorchess: Mm-hmm.
Jens Heitland Podcast: But I think there's an opportunity in discovering that for every single business. I think every business will will enable. Well, can you utilize that, let's say in this way more into the experiential perspective?
And because what you just explained is also in, [00:36:00] in the end is similar to what you said with the team,
Dorchess: Mm-hmm.
Jens Heitland Podcast: it's just that it, it is not a team that is working together. It's customers that experience things at the same time. So it's
Dorchess: Yes.
Jens Heitland Podcast: somehow,
Dorchess: Yes. It connects people. So if they have the similar experience. They will be even, even if they find each other again, uh, or cross, cross paths, uh, in the same city and they will know, ah, you were at the experience too. If it was a, uh, an experience where people connected with each other and with the, the product, I think that really creates a beautiful, um, lasting bond.
Jens Heitland Podcast: Yeah. Getting us to the end, end here. One thing. I would love to talk about, and we haven't agreed on this, can say no, you have a very specific way of doing keynotes. Can you give a little bit of glance of that without like sharing too much? Not to spoil people that book you, but can you share a little bit [00:37:00] more?
Dorchess: Okay. Well, it comes from personal experience. Like many of my things, uh, that I do, um, I personally don't love keynotes because they're a bit boring. You just sit there as a, as a consumer, you listen and somebody talks and they have a few slides, and then you have a laugh. Maybe if there's one good joke in there, you're lucky, and then you leave and you forget.
You forget what it was about because there are so many other keynotes. Um, so I like to create an experience you could say with the audience or sometimes in the audience. Um, that is not a performance, it's not entertainment, but it's a, a twist, a, a, a plot twist. I do something unexpected, and of course, yes, I can't tell you, uh, what it is, but I'll do something different every time because I believe in the power of surprise.
By being surprised, you are kind of taken out of the ordinary and because of that [00:38:00] your brain expands and you take in the information much more. So whatever I have then said afterwards will land much deeper. I.
Jens Heitland Podcast: Yeah, so everyone who is interested in experiencing that, you need to book Doche for a keynote. That's the only way how you find it out, or you're the lucky one that sits in the audience and sees it live.
Dorchess: Yeah, I was interviewed recently by somebody and she said. If I, she was in Canada. She said, if I ever have the chance, I want to be in one of your, in one of your presentations. I said, well, I hope you will. 'cause she was really just so curious, which I loved it. It sparks curiosity. Curiosity, and that's what also I, I love to do.
Jens Heitland Podcast: so we need to, we need to turn the business model around. It is like the, the people that want to experience this need to convince the, the organizations that book you for, for, or the events that book you for keynotes.
Dorchess: Yes, exactly.
Jens Heitland Podcast: way in exploring that. So call to action. Everyone who is listening [00:39:00] to this later or being, being here live you, you are welcome to pitch Doche and
Dorchess: Yes.
Jens Heitland Podcast: get for sure a place in the audience.
Dorchess: Yeah. And smiles are free, so here you go.
Jens Heitland Podcast: Exactly. Any, anything that we forgot we close that we
Dorchess: Well, one important thing is. Uh, is what I, basically, what I live for is awe. So finding opportunities to experience awe. So you, we, we often get into the, the rut of things. Life just goes on and on. But I personally, I, I try to find something new to do very frequently. So I very regularly, so I try to go somewhere new, take a different route, walk backwards.
Um, put some stuff upside down in a supermarket. It can be quite silly, but it can be so delightful. It feels a little bit naughty as well, but it, it just, it just changes things and it, it creates a little bit of a [00:40:00] feeling of wonder and, and excitement and playfulness. So I advise this and, and I think, uh, yeah, I think that's a good one to close with.
Find something that is a little bit out of the ordinary and do it, just do it.
Jens Heitland Podcast: I love that. Don't tell my daughter, by the way, I'm going shopping with her tomorrow. She will definitely do it. So where, where can people find you and how can people reach out to you?
Dorchess: Okay, so I'm on LinkedIn, Dorchester. Or, uh, you can find me at all Academy Live or live, depending on how you pronounce it. And I like saying live because I think that's the, the word that we should be using. We, we need to live and really take a liveliness into our, into our lives and not just let it happen and let it pass by.
Jens Heitland Podcast: And
Dorchess: So
Jens Heitland Podcast: the links into the show notes so that everyone can connect to you straight away from wherever you find this podcast or the video afterwards.[00:41:00]
Dorchess: great.
Jens Heitland Podcast: Doche, thank you very much for spending your Friday evening with me. Was a pleasure to have you live here. I.
Dorchess: Thank you. Thank you so much for, for having me.
