EP 231: Entrepreneurial Insights - Building Businesses, Overcoming Challenges, and Driving Success with Jason Skeesick
Explore the entrepreneurial journey with Jason Skeesick, a U.S. Army veteran and serial entrepreneur, on The Jens Heitland Show. Episode 231 delves into Jason's experience in founding Spear and Clover, highlighting his approach to business transformation through leadership and innovation. The podcast covers discipline, problem-solving, long-term vision, community building, and leveraging technology for growth.
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Welcome to another episode of The Jens Heitland Show, where we delve into the minds of innovative entrepreneurs and uncover the secrets to their success. Today, we're excited to present Episode 231, titled "Entrepreneurial Insights: Building Businesses, Overcoming Challenges, and Driving Success with Jason Skeesick."
In this episode, we explore the fascinating journey of Jason Skeesick, a U.S. Army veteran, coach, and a passionate entrepreneur. Jason's remarkable story is one of resilience, adaptability, and unwavering dedication to his craft. As the founder of Spear and Clover, he has made significant strides in transforming businesses through visionary leadership and effective strategies.
Our conversation kicks off with Jason sharing insights from his military background, highlighting the importance of discipline, problem-solving skills, and the art of thriving under challenging conditions. His experiences in the military have not only shaped his personal growth but have also been instrumental in his entrepreneurial journey.
Jason then dives into the world of entrepreneurship, discussing the evolution of his career from a systems engineer to a gym owner and eventually, a business coach. He emphasizes the role of mentorship, continuous learning, and adapting to market needs in driving business success. His story is a testament to the power of perseverance and the impact of strategic thinking in the entrepreneurial landscape.
We also get a glimpse into Jason's approach to building communities and fostering a sense of belonging, a skill that he honed during his time managing his gym. He shares valuable tips on creating an inclusive and engaging environment, which is crucial for any business looking to create a loyal customer base.
Throughout the episode, Jason offers practical advice for aspiring entrepreneurs, including the significance of balancing long-term vision with immediate actions. His insights on problem-solving, market analysis, and leveraging personal strengths are invaluable for anyone looking to make their mark in the business world.
Join us in this enlightening episode as Jason Skeesick not only shares his entrepreneurial journey but also leaves us with powerful lessons on resilience, innovation, and the relentless pursuit of success. Tune in to "The Jens Heitland Show" for an episode filled with inspiration, wisdom, and actionable strategies for aspiring entrepreneurs and business leaders.
Timing:
00:00 Introduction and Guest Background
00:31 The Journey to Entrepreneurship
01:49 Military Experience and Its Impact
07:13 The Transition from Military to Entrepreneurship
08:50 The Importance of Involvement in Business
19:15 The Role of Impact and Military Mindset in Entrepreneurship
26:20 Balancing Long Term Focus and Short Term Actions
29:32 The Importance of Details in Entrepreneurship
30:17 The Concept of Satisficing in Entrepreneurship
30:50 Understanding the Reasons Behind Success
31:34 The Power of Asking Better Questions
32:22 The Role of Interest in Entrepreneurship
33:33 Building a Community and Tribe
37:33 The Power of Authenticity and Personal Branding
38:42 The Importance of Understanding Customer Needs
46:34 The Power of Authentic Experiences in Marketing
52:57 Advice for Young Innovators
Guest Links:
Jason on Linkedin https://www.linkedin.com/in/jason-skeesick-8959722a/
Jason on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/jasonskeesick/?hl=en
Website Spear & Clover: https://www.spearandclover.com/
Spear and clover on X: https://twitter.com/spearandclover
Spear and Clover on Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCLvCzSRy8vrhjflYJUq8yTw
The Spear and Clover Podcast
Jens episode 73: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/73-human-innovation-with-jens-heitland/id1607873120?i=1000614875883
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Transcript:
(This Transcript is AI generated)
[00:00:00] Jason Skeesick: There was like a place where two pieces would break and I watched him fix it. And I was like, are you Batman? Like, who are you? And he's like, I'm involved. You know, his, his R and D department is right next to his office. I mean, it was just this thing of like, yeah, man, I put my name on this thing.
And so I'm involved. I understand how it works. I think somebody like Zuckerberg is a good example of it. Right. I mean, I think he knows as much as you could, you know, what's going on in his company and he like coded the thing a lot of it himself. Right. So I think being in the game is really important for an entrepreneur
[00:00:30] Jens Heitland Podcast: Hello and welcome
I'm your host Jens Heitland and I'm truly thrilled to introduce our guest for today. He's a U. S. Army veteran, a coach, and someone who lives and breathes who lives and breathes entrepreneurship meet Jason Skeesick a man of many hats, father, husband, fighter, and he describes himself as a carrier of heavy things. Jason's passion for entrepreneurship has driven him to establish Spear and Clover, a company dedicated to transforming businesses with passionate leaders, talented teams, and strong playbooks, pushing them from mere contenders to dynasty organizations. And if you're thinking, I've heard that voice somewhere, you're right jason is also a fellow podcaster, caving out insights and sharing stories from across the entrepreneurial landscape. In today's episode, we're diving deep into frameworks for entrepreneurs and uncovering practical ways they can be implemented. We'll be tapping into Jason military background to understand the military mindset and exploring topics like impact, the essence of community or tribe building and striking the right balance between long term focus and short term actions.
So without further ado, let's get this conversation started. Please join me in welcoming Jason Skisik.
before we go into entrepreneurship and learning from you about frameworks for entrepreneurs, I have found something about you, the title was switching systems engineer.
[00:01:59] Jason Skeesick: I was always a good kid. But I was you know, ADD or entrepreneur's disease, whatever you want to call it. And so I didn't have a ton of focus, but I had all the passion and energy in the world. And so, as a young man, I did what so many people like that have done and continue to do.
I joined the military. And when I did, I asked my friend who I respected, who was probably 25. So he was an old man. He worked for Verizon and made 100, 000 a year. And he said, you want to get into telecom. Or or intelligence, right? Which was not available to me. And so I went in and I looked at the jobs and pad network switching systems.
Operator engineer. It seemed like the the best 1. And so what that essentially is, you know, you're working with Internet and phone and and troubleshooting telecommunications. In the army, what that means is there's a long rubber black cable and it goes into a big rubberized green box with one button on the front of it called a TED, right?
I did learn actually the most rigorous school, including finance school, which I got a degree in The most rigorous training I've ever had was the military training for network switching engineer because it was a basically a bachelor's degree in switching systems and engineering.
In about 5 or 6 months, and we would go to school 1 class at a time, but we would go to school from midnight. Our shift was midnight to 8 a. m. And so I was on the 3rd shift. And in Georgia, Augusta, Georgia. And we would be in the middle of the night in school learning. And it wasn't like multiple classes.
It was one class at a time for eight hours with a couple of breaks. And there's a drill sergeant that would just walk up and down the aisles and make sure you didn't fall asleep. And so that's where, that's where I got started with that. But what I learned there was in the military and particularly the type of career that I was doing in there was two things, was discipline, was learning how to just do the things I had to do, right?
You can't fall asleep in class anymore. You can't not shave. You can't show up to work on a, you know, later out of out of uniform. And you have to, you're working together to solve problems. And that was the second. Thing that I learned was how to solve problems. And so in a very literal, like, step by step sense that I use to this day, and I consider a competitive advantage was just learning how to troubleshoot.
A problem and what problem is better for that than, you know, an electrical engineering diagram or, you know, where you can really see the progress you're making. And I simply use that to this day. The other element of problem solving. I learned in the military was. I didn't get to pick who I worked with.
I didn't get to pick what the job was. I didn't get to pick where I lived. And so it was like, you're, you're going to get this mission accomplished. You're going to do it with these tools that you have and nothing else with these people that you have who you didn't pick. Oh, and by the way, you can't quit.
And so that, that, that four years. Really gave me the ability to work with a lot of different types of people to solve a lot of different types of problems. And more importantly, the taste of freedom and being able to pick those things that I was passionate about building and problem solving.
[00:04:51] Jens Heitland Podcast: Agree with the discipline and the troubleshooting, I have experienced that for myself as well, and it. At that time, it was not obvious that it will help you in different ways, 20 years later, 15 years later, 10 years later, but just being able to read the different diagrams and understanding complex situations, which you have in business every day, they might not be drawn out yet.
But it's kind of, Hey, there is a problem. We need to solve this. I have no idea how I have a couple of ideas. Let's try to put the little puzzle pieces together to find out what the future diagram or the direction is. But you always have a problem and you have a future state where you're trying to get towards.
And, and at least that's how that helped me as well. Quite, quite a bit to get into that. So you have been working in the military as well abroad. And there's again, a common thing. You have been in Germany what is your favorite German beer?
[00:05:51] Jason Skeesick: well, you know, this is embarrassing, but you're, so I like Coke Weizen. What they'll do is, have you had Coke Weizen?
[00:05:58] Jens Heitland Podcast: No.
[00:05:58] Jason Skeesick: They put Coca Cola
[00:06:00] Jens Heitland Podcast: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah,
[00:06:01] Jason Skeesick: It's like babies. I think they feed it to children . But I really enjoy, I thought it was really good. No, I like a really good hea eyes in. What was the I think there was a um, there was a a beer from the Netherlands. tHat I really enjoyed. It's been many years. It's been about 15 years since I was there, but yeah, Hefeweizen was, was the, the go to for sure.
[00:06:24] Jens Heitland Podcast: I'm always asking people about German, but as a German myself, it's always interesting to, so what do you like? Because then you get a little bit, you're this type of person.
[00:06:35] Jason Skeesick: Have you never had Coke Weizen? Was that totally out of the box for you?
[00:06:38] Jens Heitland Podcast: Yeah, there are different versions of that. So you can put Coke into it, or you can put even banana juice into it. Which is completely, completely different, but, but if you, if it's very, very ice cold, it's awesome.
[00:06:52] Jason Skeesick: believe it. I never had to open myself up to that. This is not what I thought we'd be talking about, but I never opened myself up to Drinking other stuff in beer, like a beer cocktail, which I guess that would be qualified as but it was, it was great. And in those days, you know, I'm in the military where we're young men and women we were drinking a lot.
And so it made it a little easier to drink a lot.
[00:07:12] Jens Heitland Podcast: I get that. So you have been in the military and then you move back to the U. S. And one thing I'm super intrigued in, how did you get into owning a gym?
[00:07:25] Jason Skeesick: Yeah. So when I got back from the military, so one thing, I don't know what it is, whether my mother instilled it in me or me, or it's this entrepreneurial spirit, but I always knew that I wanted to. be successful. I wanted to do something big. And so when I was in the military and I don't, I'm not saying this is good.
I actually don't think it was good. I think this was a negative trait, but I was in the military. Everybody was, you know, just hanging out when they were off work. Right. And I'm like, I had a subscription to fortune. I'm like reading you know, rich dad, poor dad, and I'm reading four hour work. We actually, I don't think I had read that.
I don't think it'd come out yet. I'm reading I read the art of the deal for God's sake. I'm reading all these books and I'm basically telling everybody, like, I'm, I'm going to do something. And so when I got out of the military, I did two things pretty much right away. I went to school and I enrolled in school at DePaul for a finance program, which I ended up, you know, going into thinking that the path was going to be to be a corporate.
You know, Titan of industry, right? And certainly that did not happen. But at the same time, as I was enrolling in school, we launched a small, dusty CrossFit gym with two other veteran friends and I and 9, 000 total. We put 3, 000 in each and we got a huge space on a dusty warehouse on the fourth floor.
Of this really dusty, crappy kind of wood, timberloft building. And we just did both things. And so I went through school and we had this small community and tribe that we were building really as a hobby but I was just so in love with it. And so as I graduated school and went into the world of finance and was working on these big multimillion dollar deals, sitting in a literal high rise on top of the world, looking down and all I could think about was this little tribe of, you know, 80 people that we had grown at that point.
And how we could do these things to make it better and how I could rearrange the equipment and how I could change the schedule and how we could run this new you know, promotion to bring more people in or a nutrition program or whatever it was. And so what I found was, you know, I just. Finally realized that, you know, you can't pay me.
There's no amount of money. You can pay me to work 40 hours a week, but you can almost like not stop me from working 100 hours if I need to on something that I'm passionate in that I have control of, and it's helping other people on. And so from there, it was it was a foregone conclusion. You know, I took a couple of little steps.
To becoming a full time entrepreneur. But I'm so thankful that I didn't do better and get too much money or something thrown at me from the corporate job, because without that, I wouldn't be sitting here today. And I think that that was a very formative decision for us was to start that gym back in 2010.
[00:09:56] Jens Heitland Podcast: Yeah. Awesome. So when you then stepped to the next level, which is like going from a gym perspective, building your own company, what made you switch from there
[00:10:06] Jason Skeesick: so I have this strange combination of, of background of. As a young man, I was a competitive pool player and a gambler. I went into the military partly to stop doing that. And then in the military, I learned how to solve problems and work with teams. And I understood the idea of been chasing that elite team ever since.
And then it was I was a financial analyst. And I was a fitness person and so all of those things kind of come together to be okay. I am very passionate about building tribe and community helping others. I'm on a great hang. I'm great in a gym. I'm good time around a fireplace. But also underneath of that was really hammered in these sort of foundational fundamentals of financial analysis.
Projections, modeling, understanding the microeconomic situations in a small business. And so being able to have those two things juxtaposed, I think really not just. It's not that it makes me better or worse than any of the other entrepreneurs that may be listening to this or out in the world, but more, it gave me the interest in pursuing not just a tribal fund business and not just a black and white, you know, analytical business, but to marry those two things together.
And I think the results of that are just so fun and inspiring, at least to me.
[00:11:21] Jens Heitland Podcast: How did you get more into the entrepreneurship and then now helping as well other entrepreneurs to be more successful?
[00:11:29] Jason Skeesick: Yeah, I had already decided to be a full time entrepreneur. I had even belonged to a small mastermind. That was a lot of fun, but didn't make me much money. But for seven years until 2017 we were just kind of getting by, you know, we were making eight to 10, 000 of revenue you know, not enough meat on the bone.
I was still. You know, working at part time as a part of another friend's company and kind of paying the bills that way. But there was a moment where the two other owners came to me. They're both veterans, very close friends to this day. And they came to me and they said, look, man, we've got jobs. We have things that we want to pursue.
We have these beautiful and wonderful women in our lives. One of them was considering moving away. I think the other was considering, although he's still there. And they said, it's time we're going to shut it down. This thing's been stagnant. It's not going anywhere. And so I think I went to sleep that night saying, all right, well, if I can wake up tomorrow and imagine a world where this tribe that we've built, this building, this practice, this day to day thing that we're so involved in, if I can wake up tomorrow and imagine a world where it doesn't exist, we're going to shut it down.
And Jens, I just couldn't. I woke up the next day and I just totally was committed. And so I actually bought out both of those partners with a pretty reasonable buyout money that I didn't have. They allowed me to. pay it over time and kind of self finance it with the business. And that was me burning the boats, right?
If people talk about burning the ships or burning the boats, that moment kind of kicked me into gear of, we're going to make it a business, a capital B business with employees and health insurance and all that other stuff. And I was very fortunate. That a young, very unknown, I was probably a seventh client mentor who helped gym owners.
It was a company called Gym Launch. And the guy's name is Alex Hormozi, who's since become very famous in certain circles. Um, He and his wife, Layla, and the girlfriend at the time they reached out to me and I have no idea why I answered the phone or why I answered the message but I signed up for a program of business coaching and mentorship and, and education I think it was 12, 000 and I didn't have 3, 000 in my banking account.
And so they, I don't remember the exact structure, but they allowed me to pay it off over time. And we were off and running. And so I was able to pay that off ahead of time. And I think we went from, you know, just using the, the coaching and the mentorship and the information that he had put together so well, I was able to take this business from 8, 000 a month to 80, 000 a month.
And it was really, it was a combination of, you know, having a list of things to do, having somebody that I could talk to that I could run ideas by having a community of other gym owners that I became involved in that was just absolutely life changing for me. And so. Because of that, I had the opportunity to, he asked me and I accepted, had the opportunity to become a coach for some other gym owners in, within that organization.
And I just loved it. The very first time I got on one of those calls, I knew that I would never not want to be helping other entrepreneurs in the ways that I had been helped. By my mentors. And so I did that for about a year. Rightly, they decided that they needed a little more control. They couldn't have a part time coaches because I'm I'm an outside cat now.
You can't I can't be employed for anybody anymore. That's broken. And so I had to decline that. And and they did obviously very well and nothing but love and respect to them. And so I decided because there was no longer that opportunity that I would partner up with another friend of mine from the same organization.
Sure. And we started a company that called FitBiz Innovations eventually FitBiz University that focused on gyms and did the things that we talk about still to this day. And I learned from them and myself and others did that for about two years through COVID, by the way. And a point of pride there is I don't think any gym that we ever worked with during COVID shut down unless they chose to.
And so. At a certain point, though, I realized that all this stuff, the concepts, the structures, the frameworks that I was learning and teaching and involving they didn't have a whole lot to do with fitness. And so rather than having the same conversation every day with the same type of business, I decided that it was time to move on and really start to look at different vehicles, different business opportunities, different entrepreneur styles.
And that's where that's essentially where we're at today. With, with my company now, I spear and clover. Spear and clover has been around since November of last year. I took a year off between selling the two businesses that I had back in the day when my daughter was born. So I took a year off to spend time with her, to start a podcast with ladies and gentlemen like yourself and to do Muay Thai and Jiu Jitsu pretty frequently.
I just pursued interests. And then in November of last year, we relaunched Spear and Clover which is my company and my podcast and have just been having a blast. I've learned so much about so many different types of businesses, and I'm happy to report, Jens, that I was right. The concepts travel, the concepts that worked in.
And Gyms work in coaching businesses, the concepts that work in marketing agencies can also be applied to manufacturing companies. And so, I've just had a real great time engaging with these other visionary entrepreneurs who are so excited and passionate about what they're doing and have been fortunate enough to see them benefit from some of the things that helped me in the past.
And it's just so rewarding to see them then blasting off into the stratosphere.
[00:16:42] Jens Heitland Podcast: love that. How important was this gap before you really pressed the start button.
[00:16:49] Jason Skeesick: I think it was Great in some ways in the ways that you would think it was cool. We moved to a little beach community in Northwest Indiana, which is if you're from America, that's unheard of. It's weird. But we live on the lake shore here and it's really cool place. And so I was able to go rucking in the dunes with my dogs with my daughter on my back.
I did that yesterday and I'll probably do it again today. And so that part was very cool. And it felt it felt like a reward. It felt like, like freedom for sure. You know, I always tell people I retired in 2018 cause that's pretty much the last time I did something I didn't want to do for money.
But I don't recommend it. And here's why I am so driven by my responsibility to those people that I'm responsible to. I, I will let myself down a hundred times before I'll let you down. And so having a team, having several hundred clients, having other businesses, maybe looking to me to help give them advice or help them through some concepts, those things drive me forward.
And so, so many people that I've spoken to subsequently, so many visionary entrepreneurs are driven by their vision, but that can only carry you so far. It also helps to have kind of gutters in your lanes, as my friend Aaron would say and so, I will say that starting back up in November, it probably was March before I was back to what I would call like full speed far as, you know, I always say, like, having the ghost in me, having that thing that's driving you forward, you know, that doesn't get tired that is, that's, that has a choice to go do something else, but you stay and finish the project or you get excited about, you know, Changing something, which is what I was doing was changing a landing page right before I got on this call.
And it's like that feeling. That's what it's not money. It's that feeling of building something that you have ownership of and that that you'll track and improve and evolve and can share with the world. I think that's what the real. Exciting part of entrepreneurship is, and so I, I don't recommend it.
What I would have done if I could have done it over again is I would have kept sort of a lower level involvement that would have kept me in momentum and engaging, you know, I don't know what that would be, but that's what I would do.
[00:19:01] Jens Heitland Podcast: But you never know. Maybe your daughter has gotten that from you while you have been off for that period. You never know.
[00:19:09] Jason Skeesick: She's a little savage, so she must be taking something from me.
[00:19:13] Jens Heitland Podcast: Which is always good. So let's get into frameworks. One of the things I've seen on your website is military mindset. So how would you translate a military mindset to a beneficial topic for founders, for entrepreneurs, for startups?
[00:19:31] Jason Skeesick: Yeah. So for starters, if you're watching this, my hat has a spear and clover on it. I have a tattoo that's my personal symbol, which is spear and clover. And of course the shirt too, looks like it came dressed to play today. But the spear and clover is two of my five core values. And one of those is military mindset.
And so I think many, many entrepreneurs, many, many people have what I would call the spear, which is military mindset. It's discipline. It's hard work. It's showing up, it's stepping forward when there's an opportunity to take responsibility for something. And that, that is essentially what military mindset is.
Just to finish that out, the clover represents a spirit of the puppy and on the back of this shirt, it says both of those things. And so that is sort of me in a nutshell, spirit of the puppy is. Friendly, energetic, wants to meet new people, wants to try new things, excited to be around the tribe of people, excited to work together on things.
And I think it's those two combinations that have ultimately made me who I am and have helped me in the success that I've been able to achieve at whatever level that is. But also it's the people that I enjoy working with the most, is the people who are Capable of being laser focused on achieving a big hairy audacious goal, but they're also along the way capable of having a good time of continuing to have hobbies of, you know, enjoying the process of seeing struggle for what it really is, which is like an ability to change and grow.
And so for me, military mindset, It's about holding yourself to the standard that is required of you to achieve big things to have your vision become reality and to be attractive enough to have people want to work for you to want to choose to spend their time following and building your vision for a better place and a better world.
Right? I just want to make sure I have fun while I'm doing it.
[00:21:11] Jens Heitland Podcast: that's so important because if you don't have fun while you are hammering hours, you're pushing yourself forward, you're supporting your clients, whatever you do with your business, if you are not enjoying it in the moment, just by, like you said, changing your landing page, you could outsource all of it.
Sometimes it's also good to do it yourself because then you are in the details and you know. What's working, what's not working and sometimes you mess it up, but that's also good in my eyes at least because then you know what doesn't work if you, if you just keep this playful thing going and help other people to get infected by that, that's helping them to be more successful because the worst thing is you're just spearheading into one direction and you're not taking any playful topics and that it's burning you out one day, worst case.
[00:22:01] Jason Skeesick: Yeah, I mean, I agree. I think yeah. You know, you mentioned hiring things out. I have systemized and hired things out in businesses. I still do toe to some degree now. But I did this. I made a conscious decision with this business, particularly some of the more technical stuff. You know. To be involved at least to be involved in some of these decisions to understand what was going into the work that was being done to get the results that we were looking for.
So something like building a website or something like writing and creating and managing ads. You know, I had the bandwidth to do that. And so part of it was just doing that. So that I can be intimately involved. I mean, I think, you know, you talked about it like a game and I think that's such a great metaphor because when I'm not working in the nuts and bolts of the tactical stuff, at least in the building part, it's like, no, I don't want to play tag if I'm sitting at a park, I don't want to play tag, but when I'm in the game, I'm having a great time.
I'm like, Oh yeah, this is fun. Like I'm engaged. You got to get away from him. He's the one that said, or whatever it is. And so to me, I just think of. You know, there is a resistance. I mean, I'm going to gym for almost 14 years and there's a resistance to going to the gym still in me. So I know that it's even bigger in others.
But once you're in, once you're in the game, man, is it fun? And so I try to keep myself kind of inoculated to that resistance by making sure that I'm in the game, whether that's in fitness, whether that's in my personal life or whether that's in business. I want to know. I want to be able to make informed decisions One of my mentors, Martin Rawls Meehan, good friend of mine owns a great company called Reverie.
It's a sleep technology company. They make beds and mattresses and other cool stuff. And I remember the very first day that I went to his office, he let me sit in our meeting where these two engineers brought in a CAD drawing, a CAD program and put it up on the screen. And these guys went to MIT, but he has like legit engineers at his company.
And he Fixed the cab that they were doing. There was like a place where two pieces would break and I watched him fix it. And I was like, are you Batman? Like, who are you? And he's like, I'm involved. You know, his, his R and D department is right next to his office. I mean, it was just this thing of like, yeah, man, I put my name on this thing.
And so I'm involved. I understand how it works. I think somebody like Zuckerberg is a good example of it. Right. I mean, I think he knows as much as you could, you know, what's going on in his company and he like coded the thing a lot of it himself. Right. So I think being in the game is really important for an entrepreneur to the limit of your ability to
[00:24:22] Jens Heitland Podcast: Yeah. I agree. And it's, it's very, very helpful. Another thing I've, I've found on your website is impact. So how do you define impact for yourself, but as well for your clients?
[00:24:35] Jason Skeesick: I'm going to borrow from my former mentor, Alex Harmozi he talks about learning and teaching. And so if we think of impact, I'm helping to teach entrepreneurs to teach or make an impact on the world, whether that's Primarily through clients.
Right? And so learning is same situation, different behavior. That's simple. You've learned not when you get information in your brain, but when you take action that you otherwise wouldn't have taken, that is superior to what you would have done. And so teaching, which is what I'm trying to do with entrepreneurs, teaching is.
My ability to get you to learn my ability to get you to behave differently than you otherwise would have not to know something in your head, not to be able to talk about it at a party, but to actually come upon upon that situation and behave differently. So we can translate that to a business to a business.
It's I know that you use you know, this water bottle. You know, whatever this is, but I'm going to educate you on why you should use this bottle that is superior, less expensive, less longer, better for the environment, et cetera. My goal is not to make the bottle or any of that. My goal is to get people to choose.
The superior bottle and to have actually learned and that's where we make an impact. And so I think so often people don't connect those dots. I talk to entrepreneurs all the time that will tell me about their big grandiose vision and that's a rare skill, but it's not hard. If you have it, if you have vision, which not everybody has the type of vision I'm talking about, but if you have it.
You know that you can sit there and you can have vision and everything you see if you let yourself, the real thing is to take action in a way that that vision starts to happen in the real world. And that's impact.
[00:26:15] Jens Heitland Podcast: Yeah. I love that. And it's so important to get, get that built down. If we link this to the next one, which is long term focus, but short term actions, and that's maybe connected to that.
[00:26:27] Jason Skeesick: Yeah, 100%. So another of my core values is how I work and that's head up feet moving. So I always have my head up. I'm always looking at where we're trying to go, but my feet are moving. I'm paying attention to the changing circumstances as they arise. I like to think of, you know, the. The distant point on the horizon, right?
I'm walking down the street or running down the street. There's a distant point on the horizon, but I have to still navigate those bumps and those curves along the way to get there. And so, you know, you can start very simply with, you know, what is your total objective? If you understand your objective very, very clearly, then your strategy, which is second becomes very, very clear as well.
And if your strategy. Is, is clear than tactics are just perfunctory, right? Like tactics present themselves. And so, so often entrepreneurs or just anybody trying to solve a problem, they start in the middle or even at the end, and they haven't really started with understanding what the true objective was.
And so, you know, we talked earlier a little bit before we started recording about this idea of shiny object syndrome that so many people like me, at least that I've met have complained about and struggle with and continue to struggle with. Me too. So I, I like to think about it in terms of how do I stay focused?
Well, I have a vision. I see a block of marble. I have a vision for this statue. It's a beautiful statue. It's in my brain. It's nothing in the world right now, only a block of marble. And so as I start to chip away at it, I'm excited. I get the broad strokes done. I get it, you know, kind of fleshed out. And then another idea pops into my head.
Everybody listening to this, who's an entrepreneur knows what I mean about. The way that I decide whether to take action on that or not is does it remove marble and make this sculpture a more pure and beautiful and effective vision or version of my vision? Or am I taping something on because I don't feel like addressing the original?
Problem. And so that simple test has guided me, you know, to whatever success that I've gotten. I mean, it's not always been right, but that that's, that's how I sort of self discipline myself to not just take hard lefts and hard rights because we all know somebody who starts 15 different companies and none of them ever really get off the ground because they're just moving on from excitement to excitement.
And as a former gambling addict, right? I can tell you that that's not a very good way to go.
[00:28:40] Jens Heitland Podcast: I love that. Interesting enough, I was meeting the other day with the former chief HR person from Heineken, the brewery. We didn't have a beer unfortunately because it wasn't the morning, but so, so we, we talked about our corporate background and he's already retired. He's I think in his sixties. We just chatted what is the difference of the startups and the smaller companies and entrepreneurs succeeding and comparing that to the world where we come from, he from Heineken, me from Ikea. And what he was saying is. literally what you just said is you put your vision out there and then you go deep into details on how do you, how do you get there?
And this organizations are doing that. And I've experienced that. I was part of it for more than 12 years. do this on training people on the details in, in Ikea. It was like, okay, you're selling a couch. How do you move the couch by 10 degrees and you sell double? How do you do this? How do you do that?
And, and just this details. A lot of entrepreneurs, when they're getting started, who have not been in this school, they're just trying to wing it. They're not focusing on the details to get towards the bigger perspective. And that's quite interesting that we both have had the same experience.
[00:30:01] Jason Skeesick: Yeah, I couldn't agree more. And that goes right back to troubleshooting an electrical diagram, right? Because every single question results, if you answer one question, it only gives you two new questions or more, right? And so I think so many people never open that box of answering the questions.
There's a word that I heard in college called satisficing and satisficing. If this is correct, this is what I remember it to be. Satisficing is picking the first option that you come up with that solves the immediate problem. And that is the plague that is so pervasive in entrepreneurship is like, well, that'll work.
Let's go. Oh, that'll work. Let's go put a bandaid on it. But for me, it's, there's, there's a thing and I, I attribute it to the work that I was kind of not forced, but Pushed through in the corporate world and working as a banker was okay. Numbers went up. Why did they go up? Because I remember thinking this is good.
Why are we upset? It's like, well, it's not good enough that it's good. We need to know why it's good. We need to be able to reproduce why it's good. So obviously, if something's bad, we're going to pour attention into it until we figure it out. Right? We're bleeding. We need to stop the bleeding. But when it's good, I want to know why it's good.
I want to know exactly why it's good. I don't want to know that the ads work. I want to know which ad worked. And more importantly, I want to know what part of which ad worked. And then when we get to there, I want to know why that part works so that I can reproduce it without people realizing it. Right.
And so, anytime we answer a question. I think some people see the top line, which is the question is answered to me. I look immediately to the bottom line to see what it is that we can learn and what the new questions are that arose from that.
[00:31:33] Jens Heitland Podcast: yeah. And in the end it's how do you ask better questions and, and get into that. And that's, I think as well when you're growing with your enterprise or with your startup, with your entrepreneurial journey as more people, you get onto your team, you need to distill that into everyone. You, everyone needs to get that mindset.
And that's a bit like you as a founder have the responsibility to do that. As more people you onboard, if they're not taking it, it's very, very hard to keep it in the organization.
[00:32:05] Jason Skeesick: I think there's one word that captures that. Obviously when you hire people, obviously when you work with people, obviously if you want to be an entrepreneur and start a business, you need to have the skills, you need to be able to do it. You need to understand it. You need to all those things. the one word that I've never seen fail.
It's interest. If you have an unbounded interest in the thing that you're doing, it pulls you. I'm tingling. I could feel it in my face right now. Yens like the idea to have interest. Nothing trumps that human human progress is driven on interest and survival. But it's like interest. I wonder if I can plant this flower in the ground and I can have food in the spring.
Like it's interest. You know what I mean? And so the people that I have the most Empathy for are those people who when I ask them what they're interested in, they come back with basically nothing. I like to watch TV with my friends or something, and that's by the way, that's not a value judgment. It's more like I wish for you that you find interest in something that pulls you forward because otherwise all of the energy has to come from you every single day.
And dude, if I was running just off me fuel, I wouldn't get. I'm going somewhere because I'm interested in it and I can see it being a better opportunity than where I'm at now. And so ultimately, if you are interested enough, there's nothing that you won't do to get to that thing.
[00:33:30] Jens Heitland Podcast: yeah. Can't agree more. It's so important. Let's go into community and tribe building. I mean, you have done something extraordinary when you owned your gym. How do you use this today? Because building a tribe in a physical environment is different than in a digital environment or are similarities. And then, so I think at least for me is that's one of the golden nuggets when you're building a business, building a community around it, which kind of you get.
At least in my eyes, you get support from other people and helping you to promote your business. So how do you build and how can people build a community and how did you do that from the past and how do you help people today and getting into that?
[00:34:12] Jason Skeesick: I think actually a lot of it is fueled by what I was just talking about, about interest. And so, it's like if if a marketing executive goes to somebody and says, make something viral, it's like, well, How do you do that? I mean, certainly nowadays, there's all sorts of analytics behind that.
That certainly somebody will hear me and disagree here. But what I'm saying is ultimately, it's about understanding people's interests, sales, marketing. It's about understanding the people's interests that you're trying to serve when you, when you're building a community or you're building a team or a culture or a client community kind of depends on the business and across the gym.
Certainly there's both, right? You have the tribe of. Employees and then you have the tribe of clients. But it's all about interest. And so, you know, for me, try building. I don't know that. I don't know that. I would say that I'm good at building communities as much or culture is the better word. I don't know that I'm good at building culture as much as I'm good at.
Putting the environment, the Petri dish, putting the environment in place that culture will form. And so I can give you a good example of that. Very early in our gym, the very first time we decided to throw a Christmas party, me and the two other gentlemen that I was working with. Shout out to Dan and Garnett.
We were like, let's plan this Christmas party. And then I don't remember whose idea it was, but it's like, if we plan this Christmas party, it's going to suck. Nobody's going to have fun, you know, whatever. And so from the very first year, we started a party planning committee. I just asked the, you know, friendly, active, socially, you know, engaged couple of females, but also a male.
To put together the ideas for the party and I gave him like 200 and a trip to the dollar store, the party supply store, you know, and that party was insane. It's so much fun. And so, you know, building culture and community is so much about getting people in a room, whether advertising or just inviting your friends, getting people in a room that have a common interest and then letting the culture happen and then sort of shepherding that.
And I definitely identify with this idea of the shepherd of like, okay, there's a wolf in here. We got to get rid of that one. And this is what the sheep like to do. Let's, let's shepherd that towards someplace that's virtuous and helpful and, and, and has value for them. And so I think a big part, I turned and looked in 2018 or 19, I looked at my wife one day and I go, The only reason we can't grow this community is because you have to do CrossFit to do a part of it.
And CrossFit's really hard. Like, and so I remember that moment where it's like everybody was just having this great time. And almost none of the ideas were coming from me. Certainly none of the execution very, by and large, was coming from me. It was mostly about just trying to listen to what those folks who'd gathered.
Wanted and were drawn to and would participate in and potentially vote with their dollars for and so the learning was mostly just listening.
[00:36:49] Jens Heitland Podcast: yeah. It's quite cool because in the way you, you gave a very, very simple examples like creating a party committee. It's not, it's not rocket science, like everyone can do that, but it's, it's, it's so, maybe it's so simple that people are not thinking about it. It's the same if you have a company with 100 people, you don't need to organize the party or whatever you do yourself.
You can just ask a group of people, Hey, would, who would be interested in, in organizing the party? And then people will show, show hands and then they will get things going. And I think it's, it's, it's a lot. More opportunities, even with your, your, your existing clients, you can do the same things.
[00:37:33] Jason Skeesick: yeah, and I would say that there's like, there's a central problem that almost all entrepreneurs at some point have and that is. We're visionaries, we're capable, we're willing to do the work. And so we walk around all day, like out of Donnie Darko with like this beam coming from us outward. And it's like, what can I deliver?
What can I do? What's the best party I can put together? What's the best product I can put together? What's the. What's this thing that I can deliver? And the problem is, is there's almost never anybody standing in the path of that being going. I hope he does that, right? And so this, this, this idea of delivering what I would say, like delivering features, I can deliver this feature.
I can deliver that feature. We're geared to think of how to deliver new and better features, better water bottle, better party, better whatever couch, right? The problem is nobody's walking around looking for that thing you just came up with. What they're looking for. Is the result of that thing, the benefit of that thing.
And so the framework, since we're talking frameworks, the framework is yes, develop your features, but then step out of yourself, stand where that client or the, the, the most clients you want to reach are and ask yourself, what is it that they're currently looking for? And a lot of times when entrepreneurs do that, they realize they've been working too hard and that they've been throwing the stones in the wrong direction altogether.
And so they simply say, Oh, that's what you want. Well, crap. Okay. Then I guess I'll just do that. And then people go, yes, take my money. That's all work.
[00:38:56] Jens Heitland Podcast: Yeah. And it, it always sounds so easy if you, if you have done it and you, you know, the path to, to get there, but it's always easier to say it when you have done it. So the tricky thing is, and maybe let's, let's dive a little bit into podcast, how. Do you help people realizing this? How do you get people that work with you into that frame of, Hey, there are a couple of things you need to change.
You need to find out for yourself to be able to serve your customers or potential customers in a different way.
[00:39:32] Jason Skeesick: By and large, the answer is there are steps, right? And so, just like I said earlier, you don't start an engineering diagram troubleshooting in the middle or at the end. You have to start at the beginning. And so, you know, for us, and it depends on who I'm working with and how deeply they want to go.
Certainly we can. We can put stuff in place right away. That will work. You know, there are things that I can do there. But in my ideal world, if I'm trying to help somebody become a fisherman, not just help them give them fish what you have to do is you have to start with, okay, well, what are your core values?
What is the mission that you're setting out to do? This is not new. Everybody's heard core values, mission long term short term goals, things like that. But also then what is the market that you want to serve? Who are these people? Who are the people? What do they currently need? What's being done?
Well, Where do we see an opportunity for improvement or differentiation? And then narrowing that down to the avatar, who is the one person that has one really bad bleeding neck problem that we can solve in a simple, superior and effective way. Right? And so if we can do that then we can turn up the volume because so often people turn up the volume on something that's unclear.
It's an unclear message and they just turn up the volume and so you know, and so you see these ads and you're like, who came up with that? I'm complaining about that all the time to my wife, by the way, when I see like bad billboards or bad ads, I'm like, who wrote that, like, no way, the only thing you're gonna do is get people like me to start yelling about it in the car.
But anyway and so from there, that once you do that, then you have the answers, you have the homework done, and then it becomes a lot easier to address those things because what you'll often find after that, it seems like a lot, but it's really not that hard. Once you get to that point, you look at those group of people in those group people, please deliver us this and you go, okay, cool.
You mean this and they go, yes, or they say no. And then you go back to the drawing board.
[00:41:15] Jens Heitland Podcast: Yeah. And then they throw money at you in the best case.
[00:41:19] Jason Skeesick: I mean, it's so funny how simple we've been hearing cliches our whole lives that I'm just starting to understand as a 40 year old man who's been trying for 40 years, you know, like it's, there's so many things. Honesty is the best policy. Authenticity, all that stuff. You go, yeah, yeah, yeah. But not for me.
I'm going to pretend to be the cool guy with the motor jacket. And it's like, Oh no, actually. Like what we're doing right now. I have no doubt. I have very little doubt that one day if I meet you at a podcasting conference, I'm going to talk to the same guy I'm talking to right now, and I can promise my side.
That's what you get as well. It doesn't sound like it's hard, but it is because so many of us have such a hard time just being ourselves publicly and professionally. And even something as simple as just being yourself, telling the truth. Those things are just Like very highly rewarded in our, in marketplaces and in our community,
[00:42:11] Jens Heitland Podcast: agree. The tricky thing with that, at least in my experience is you're, if you work in large corporate, you're always. It's kind of nudged into the direction to play a role. It's not about be authentic self. It's more about you have to fit in my friend. This is where we are. This is how we communicate.
This is, and I get that from a large corporate perspective, but in the end for us, and that's, that's, that's one tip I give to every entrepreneur that's, that's getting started, that's going into that direction and focusing a little bit more. With startup founders right now, build your personal brand. Even if you're not, you don't want to be an influencer and you're very good in that as well, utilizing social media as an example, build your personal brand because you, in the beginning, you as a person, you are the differentiator.
They, there, there might be companies who are doing exactly the same thing. Even if you build a software solution, you are talking to the potential clients. You are talking to the customers. You are the differentiator. in the way how you interact with the other person. If you are playing a role, they will feel this and they will not buy from you, even if the solution might be helping them.
At least that's, that's what I recommend. Every young person build your personal brand. I wish I had started with 30, not with 40.
[00:43:36] Jason Skeesick: Yeah, it was hard. I think you had to be a I think you had to have a real knack or insight into where our culture and technology was going to have been able to realize that you're just a guy driving in your car, listening to the radio. And one day your thoughts on the song on the radio might be broadcast on Twitter.
You know, like I think that our generation in particular. It's kind of the in betweeners. I think they do call us the lucky ones because we grew up without cell phones and internet for a little while. And then we had, and they've seen it to kind of go all the way. But it's not surprising to me that you might not want to build a personal brand and, and I can understand that, but I will say I don't have a whole lot of insight to offer to so, okay, actually let me take that back.
Spear and Clover. It's not Jason and Clover. It's not Jason's Skeesick's brand is Spear and Clover is a brand that stands on itself on its own in many ways. But it is a direct representation of like the most core values that I have and so in that way what I would say is if you picked, you know Trying to think of an example.
I think apple is a probably good example like that brand particularly back in the day Was just such an expression of what Steve Jobs believed in and who he was and and and how he could see the world and it's changed and there's just myriad explanations or examples of that in practice with that company, it's not Steve Jobs, but he needed to.
Create a company that was standing for those things. And so I couldn't agree more that you need to be a personal brand. I don't think that you have to be an influencer. I don't think that you have to have a lot of followers. I don't think that what you do on vacation necessarily impacts why the, whether or not I'll buy your company, your clothes.
But I will say this, there's a company called go fast. Don't die. And I buy their stuff. It's a motorcycle brand. I don't motorcycle, but I love, love, love the founder of that company and the way that they present themselves. He like rides around the country on a motorcycle and like has like. community campouts and big bonfires and all this stuff.
This guy is living, I don't even know his name, but this guy is living this lifestyle that I find so romantic and exciting and adventurous. And so I buy his clothes because I'm like, yeah, I will buy that brand on a motorcycle. My wife would kill me if I owned a motorcycle. But, but just the idea of like, When I see that it says so much to me about who you are and I believe it.
And then when I put it on my head, I feel like I'm a little bit representing that. I mean, I went this is sort of dovetail here, but this is more personal. I went on a long ruck march with my good friend, Will Taylor. Shout out to Will. He came and visited for a couple of days and we live here in the dunes.
And so we put a log on our shoulder and a backpack on our back. And I took one picture the whole day, it was not about that. It's just, we're going on a conversation. We were working hard doing this really fun things like a Tuesday. So it's like, we're both entrepreneurs. This is cool. This is what we want to do, you know, and, and we got to the end of it.
I think we had done like, you know, 10 miles or something with, we never put the log down. We both had packs on our backs. The dogs were having a blast. And at the end of the day, we sat down on the beach, the sun was coming down. It's kind of romantic. And we're leaning up against the log that we had carried all day.
And I looked at him, I said, Marketing is trying to use a picture to express what we just went out and did. So that the people that are involved in our stuff don't have to go do that. I don't need you to go ruck for 10 miles and get all sandy and wet and sweaty and gross. Do that. I think it's great, but you don't have to.
And you know what? The funniest thing about this is I said that that day. And as of today, the 1 picture that I took is probably my highest grossing photo ad on Facebook in the last 5 years,
[00:47:13] Jens Heitland Podcast: That's awesome.
[00:47:14] Jason Skeesick: and it's a picture of. His back with a jacket. There's no muscles. He's got a log on his shoulder. My two wet dogs are smiling and running around chasing the ball.
And it's like a small little beach and it represents a day that actually happened. And when people see that picture, they know what that led, what led up to that moment. They know the type of guy that he must be to have chosen to do that for fun. And I just think that there's so much that can be expressed with that.
[00:47:43] Jens Heitland Podcast: Yeah. I love that. And that goes back then to the community because they feel part of it. And that's, that's what it is about.
[00:47:52] Jason Skeesick: I mean, Forrest Gump running on the street. What are you doing? I don't know. Just running. I guess I'll just run. I didn't have anything going on.
[00:47:59] Jens Heitland Podcast: yeah, true. Let's get into your podcast. Obviously everyone should check out episode number 73 with an awesome guest, but tell us a little bit about what, what are you trying to achieve with the podcast? What are the guests about and what can people learn from your podcast?
[00:48:17] Jason Skeesick: first of all, Spear and Clover podcast. Thank you so much for the mention. And thank you for being a guest. You were fantastic. You also we've, we've collaborated already and I hope to many more times in the future. I'm fascinated by you and what you do. I think you're really but the show is essentially what we've been doing today.
It's, it's talking to entrepreneurs primarily, although not exclusively and asking them questions about why it is that they do what they do, how they have found success, what they've learned from their struggles. And for me, I have just a boundless appetite for learning from people who have gone through a different path on a similar journey.
And so if you're an entrepreneur and you feel like sometimes you've been going through it alone, that's what Spirit Clover can provide is is really an opportunity to look at such similar. Journeys that have such different maps and experiences and struggles and successes. And so for me, as you have done so beautifully today it's all about, you know, when we get that first answer and how did you end up there and why was that important?
I just, I love that stuff. And so, it's, it's super fun. It's a, it's a passion project for me. You know, we don't have advertising or anything but mostly it was just my interest, my interest in what makes, you know, you tick, what, how do, how do we innovate the human way? Like I want to know more about that.
And so, it's just been, it's just been a labor of love and, and I, I probably will never stop doing it. It's it's been a wonderful.
[00:49:39] Jens Heitland Podcast: Yeah. So everyone who is listening to this podcast, go over to this speer and clover podcast, give him a like, give him a shout out. And if you like it, listen to all episodes. I listened to a couple of as a prep for our interview when I was on your podcast and now as well for this, I think there are so many cool guests you have.
And as well, how you do it. I really love your style. So, I wish I could do that a little bit better with, with my German English. So it's, it's really fun to listen to you. Awesome. So really, really appreciate your podcast as well. So everyone hop over and have a listen to it. I will put the link to my episode on your podcast into the show notes as well.
[00:50:22] Jason Skeesick: that was a really good one. I mean, I think there's I'm fascinated by people that I agree with so much as I agree with you when we've talked offline and online. I'm fascinated when we're different guys. We've had different lives. We're from different countries. And yet we're both going like this when you're talking.
I'm going. Yeah. I know it's, you know, I think about it that way, but I know, and I, I just, I can't get enough of that. I, I really enjoyed that. It's it's, it's, it's own reward, man.
[00:50:49] Jens Heitland Podcast: Let's get into the last part of the podcast where I'm asking two questions that I use with every guest. First question is. If you could work with a project that is impacting every human being on earth, what project would you choose to work with and why would you choose to work with that project?
[00:51:08] Jason Skeesick: You know what? I'm actually in the very early stages of maybe doing something like that. But what I have a huge fascination with. Is this one question that I found in myself over and over and over again, and I've seen it reflected in almost everybody I've ever worked with. And that is this idea of knowing that something is good for me, knowing that I enjoy it, knowing that I working out nutrition, good sleep habits, whatever.
Knowing all of those things, knowing that I feel better, I'm more happy, and then still having a resistance. To do in the things that make that happen and even loving doing those things, jujitsu or whatever, running biking. And so what, if I could do a project that would include everybody, it would be. To tie our results to the actual markers of what causes that to happen.
And so right now, that's something like Apple Health or MyFitnessPal or any of these fitness trackers. I think that eventually we will get to a place where we're able to diminish that resistance, that voice in your head that says to stay on the couch. And I think the way we get there is by increasingly delivering effortless.
Information that is basically encouraging you to go forward, not because it's like, Oh, you're good enough. Go out there and have fun. You can do it like that's great if you don't have the data. But if I could tell you, for instance, like, Hey, did you know that since you've been putting your phone away an hour before bed, you've gotten longer sleep and you've got to raise at work or and your body fat has come down and you've gone to the gym five times a week instead of three times a week.
And so really starting to connect the dots that most people just are not able to do themselves. And so ultimately, like, If I had a life's mission, it would be helping over people overcome that resistance that keeps them from living their best, like most helpful, long, long, happy and enjoyable lives.
[00:52:54] Jens Heitland Podcast: Love that. Next question. What advice would you give to a young innovator that's just getting started?
[00:53:06] Jason Skeesick: Don't rush and learn to love the struggle. And I don't mean like learn to say you love the struggle. But I mean, literally now. That when I ask for feedback from people that I respect or customers or market research, the only information that I really put a lot of value on is the negative is the stuff I got wrong.
Because we have two choices as entrepreneurs, we can be right or we can be successful the first time. Right. And so, and so I want to find out where I'm wrong. I can't, I take this into personal relationships. If I have a political or philosophical or just whatever around the house disagreement with somebody, I very quickly want to figure out.
Where they're at. I want to sit on their side of the table. I don't want to leave a conversation, a winner, a winner. I want to leave with both of us agreeing on what was correct. And so that's the same thing as an entrepreneur. So if you're a young entrepreneur, don't go out to seek the justification that your first and good idea was correct.
Go out and figure out what the real correct answer is that maybe comes from. The struggle and the failures and the iterations that came from your first idea.
[00:54:11] Jens Heitland Podcast: Great advice. Yeah, so important. Last point, so I will obviously put all the different social media links to your website and everything into the show notes, but what is the best platform to reach out to you if there are people and listeners and say, I need to reach out to Jason, I want to talk to him. I want to learn more about frameworks and maybe even he can help me with my business.
[00:54:37] Jason Skeesick: Yeah. So our Instagram is probably it's Jason Skeesick on Instagram or spear and clover on Instagram. Those are, are both outlet points for us. But if you have any kind of questions or your, your business is in a tough spot, or you think That's something that you heard today. Spoke to you. I would, I would just schedule a call.
Go onto my website, www. spearandclover. com. And you can book a strategy session. We can talk about your business. We can, you know, kind of figure out exactly if there's an opportunity for us to help you. And like you guys, we were talking about this before recording, I'm a connector, and so if I can't help you, I always know somebody that can.
So if you're feeling like you're alone, I'm definitely, or you just need to get past something in the business. I'm definitely somebody that can be a resource.
[00:55:15] Jens Heitland Podcast: Awesome. Jason, thank you very much for being on the show. It was a pleasure to have you.
[00:55:22] Jason Skeesick: Thank you, sir. I appreciate you having me on and would love to have you back on my show anytime.
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