Making Credibility Visible - Dominate your Niche Podcast of Ruth Ferreira
Making Credibility Visible Jens Heitland
Podcast description from the Host:
In this high-energy and insight-rich episode, I sit down with Jens Heitland, CEO brand builder, global entrepreneur, endurance athlete, and former IKEA executive. From coaching CEOs across continents to completing Ironman triathlons, Jens brings a fresh, grounded perspective on leadership, personal branding, and the power of mindset.
We explore how pushing your physical limits in sport can directly fuel resilience in business, why personal brand matters more than ever for CEOs, and the critical (and costly) mistake Jens made in one of his startup ventures, and what you need to learn from it.
What You'll Learn in This Episode:
Why human-centric innovation starts with leadership
How discomfort drives personal and professional growth
The power of storytelling to shape culture and drive transformation
Lessons from endurance sports that apply directly to leadership
Memorable Quotes:
“Everything is mindset. If you’re fairly healthy, you can run 5–10k. But the long stuff? That’s 60% in your head.”
“If people don’t want it and can’t afford it, you’re not solving the right problem.”
“Stretch goals are the ones that scare you. That’s the point. That’s where the magic is.”
Resources and Links:
The Success Method Course: Looking to grow your business? Check out Ruth Ferreira’s "The Success Method” for small business owners looking to find more clients and make more money.
Connect with Jens:
🌍 Website: https://www.jensheitland.com/story
💼 LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jensheitland/
Links to the Podcast:
Links to the Host:
Podcast Summary:
Unlock Your Potential: Key Takeaways from Our Chat with Jens Heitland on Building Credibility and Dominating Your Niche
Have you ever wondered how to turn career setbacks into launchpads, or build a personal brand that truly stands out in today's digital landscape? In a recent insightful episode of the Dominate your Niche Podcast, I had the pleasure of speaking with Jens Heitland, an extraordinary entrepreneur and expert in personal branding for CEOs. This conversation was packed with "gold" for anyone seeking to enhance their professional presence and achieve ambitious goals.
Jens Heitland's journey is a powerful testament to unconventional success. His career began far from the corporate world, on construction sites in Germany. A pivotal moment arrived at age 24 when redundancy in the construction industry forced a drastic pivot. This wasn't a setback, but "the biggest moment in my whole life" , catapulting him into Deutsche Bank, one of Germany's largest banks, and then, in a rapid ascent, through IKEA to a global leadership position in under seven years.
Despite reaching the pinnacle of corporate success as Global Head of Innovation at IKEA, Jens felt "unfulfilled". This led him to take the bold leap into entrepreneurship, starting a consulting business. He quickly faced the raw reality of solo ventures: becoming the "head of sales, you're head of marketing, you are head of people, your head of operations because there and janitor". It was through this intense period of "hustling" and "working 24/7" (though he advises against it) that he forged his resilient approach to learning and business.
Top Insights for Building Your Brand & Business with Jens Heitland:
Our discussion with Jens illuminated several vital principles for career growth, entrepreneurship, and personal branding:
Redundancy as Opportunity: Jens's experience demonstrates that job loss can be a "real catalyst" for an "amazing series of events" , providing a unique chance to redefine your path and "create opportunity".
The Power of Prototyping & Action-Oriented Learning: Instead of overthinking, Jens advocates "throwing spaghetti on the wall" and testing constantly. He emphasizes learning by doing and taking "as more actions I do and take as easier it gets to learn".
Mindset: The Ultimate Driver: A significant takeaway from Jens's passion for endurance sports (like Ironman and 50km runs ) is that "everything is mindset". He believes that most healthy individuals can achieve far more than they imagine if they have the right mental approach. This applies directly to business: set "stretch goals" that are slightly beyond reach to truly motivate and innovate.
Strategic Personal Branding for CEOs (and Beyond):
Long-Term Vision: Build your personal brand with a focus on where you want to be in "five to 10 years".
360-Degree Visibility: It's crucial to be findable "everywhere". This means going beyond just LinkedIn to other social platforms like Facebook and TikTok, understanding that different platforms engage different "mindset[s]".
Own Your Content Hub (Your Website): Jens strongly advises building your own website, as AI and search engines prioritize content from the "source owner". A dedicated speaking page on your site, for instance, significantly boosts visibility.
Leverage Transcripts for AI: A game-changing tip from Jens is to include full transcripts of your podcasts and video content on your personal website. While users might not scroll through them, "AI does" , making your content highly discoverable for specific queries.
Pillar Content Strategy: Create core "pillar content" (like a podcast) that can be easily repurposed across all platforms. Jens uses short-form versions of his podcast episodes as TikTok content. He suggests having "three business driving pillars" and "two more personal ones" to ensure consistent and engaging content.
The "Willingness to Pay" Factor: Jens shared a valuable lesson from a past startup failure: while his product was loved, "nobody wanted to pay for it". He learned the critical importance of ensuring your target market "want what you do," "need it," and "be able to afford it". This insight led him to focus his current agency exclusively on CEOs, who recognize the immense value and are willing to invest.
Leadership is Service: A profound realization for Jens over his 20-year leadership journey is that "leadership is not about me". Instead, it's about being "there to serve" and empowering your team members.
Tenacity and Perseverance are Non-Negotiable: Jens's story is the ultimate proof that "anything is possible" with sheer determination. From being "the worst in school" to achieving global success, his drive is contagious. He emphasizes that if people he mentors "don't have that [tenacity], it's not going to work".
AI Formated Transcript:
Ruth: Hi Jens, welcome to the podcast.
Jens Heitland: Hello, Ruth. Great to be here.
Ruth: Amazing to have you here. So Jens, you have a fascinating, and it's fair to say, quite a varied career. So I'd love to hear about the journey of how you've come to be doing what you do today?
Jens Heitland: Yeah, that's a long story. So let's start with growing up in Germany in a small village. Then I made major steps in my twenties, went from construction sites into big corporate, and then insight.
Ruth: Oh, how did you make that leap? Because that's not a normal career trajectory that we hear about.
Jens Heitland: No, it's definitely not. So when I was 24, I was made redundant because the construction industry was down in Germany at that time. Literally in one day I needed to figure out what's my next step, and I applied to as many companies as possible and got a job in the Deutsche Bank, which is one of the biggest banks in Germany.
Ruth: Yeah.
Jens Heitland: Still doing engineering stuff, but then being able to grow as a leader and grow as a manager in that company. Then was headhunted by a Swedish furniture company.
Ruth: I'm just going to bring us back because I bet there's somebody listening on here who's had that experience of they've been made redundant and they're literally like, what am I going to do? They're panic applying. But actually that redundancy, that downturn was a real catalyst. It was the start of an amazing series of events in your life.
Jens Heitland: Yeah, 100%. This is the biggest moment in my whole life.
Ruth: I love that. And for some people this could have been a disaster, but for you, you created opportunity. I'm sure it was horrible. But there's always an opportunity and I love that you just seized it and you made it work for you. So tell me, you went on to a Swedish furniture company.
Jens Heitland: Yeah, so I was starting in a Swedish furniture company after the Deutsche Bank thing. The thing with IKEA was, at that time, you had to start in a store. So I started in a store as the operational manager for the store and doing still technical topics, but really understanding how an IKEA store works. Like how do you not get lost? You might know that as a customer.
Ruth: Yeah. I'm going to say I love IKEA. I was literally saying earlier, I can touch IKEA furniture from where I'm sitting here. I need to stretch a little, but I can. There is definitely a decent amount of IKEA in my house. Everyone loves. Yeah. And the meatballs as well.
Jens Heitland: Yeah, and hot dogs. Hot dogs.
Ruth: Yeah. I'm more of a meatballs girl, to be honest. But my kids love the hot dogs.
Jens Heitland: Yeah.
Ruth: So you started in IKEA, you are running the store or working in operations in the store?
Jens Heitland: Yeah, I was kind of department head for the operations in the store.
Ruth: Okay.
Jens Heitland: And then, from that end, it was only upwards, which was ridiculous speed and crazy moves. To be able to start at IKEA, we needed to move 600 kilometers south. Okay. And then, like one and a half years later, we moved 500 kilometers up towards Düsseldorf in Germany. Wow. Then like I was a regional manager responsible for 11 stores. Then moved into the headquarter after that, was a global project manager, then moved to Russia, and then moved into the global headquarter to Sweden. All of this in less than seven years to be in a global position.
Ruth: Gosh, look at you. And then you decided to jack it all in and start your own thing.
Jens Heitland: Exactly.
Ruth: So tell me, because honestly, so many of my clients, so many of my business contacts, they've been smashing it in their career, but they're unfulfilled. And on paper it looks like they're absolutely winning, but there's a little something that's just hungry to do their own thing. I'm not sure what your experience was, but yeah, tell me about that. Like leaving honestly, a great career and setting up on your own. What was that like?
Jens Heitland: It was very difficult in the beginning because I can tell you, you work in a company like IKEA, which everyone knows.
Ruth: Yeah.
Jens Heitland: And especially in, so I was global head of innovation, which is even a fancy, fancy job.
Ruth: Yeah. Nice title as well. Exactly.
Jens Heitland: So stepping out, and then it started like, what you do when you step out of a large corporate, you kind of build a business that is a consulting business. My first business was a consulting business and it's still alive, but it's not my main activity these days. It was really, nobody wanted to talk to me anymore.
Ruth: Why not?
Jens Heitland: Because everyone associated me with the company and it was really rock bottom for me at that time. It was like, how do I figure out what I do and how do I sell myself as a consultant?
Ruth: Yeah, and these are skills you've never had to do before. In a corporate, the work just appears. Your day's quite structured. You're not having to do everything. And then you leave, you set up on your own, and suddenly you are head of sales, you're head of marketing, you are head of people, your head of operations. And janitor.
Jens Heitland: And janitor.
Ruth: Yes. And you make the tea and the coffee.
Jens Heitland: Exactly.
Ruth: It goes wrong. It's all, you know, if your laptop stops working, it's all on you. And for some people that switch, and for everyone to be fair, it's massive. And that's what a lot of people don't realize. Starting their own business is that. It's so much more than just doing the thing you're excellent at.
Jens Heitland: Yeah, it's huge.
Ruth: So how did you make it work?
Jens Heitland: I mean, hustling and working 24/7. Yeah, which I don't recommend anyone to do, but. I think that helped me to get up on my feet and really learning, trying to do prototype and test as much as possible. So throwing spaghetti on the wall and then trying to see what sticks. And that over and over and over again, understanding how business works, how do you sell, how do you build a product, all of this, and how do you build an offer that people are even interested in paying you for all of that.
Ruth: How did you learn this stuff?
Jens Heitland: I mean, I'm really learning by doing, but I'm trying to, and even today, I'm just was in a workshop with Alex Mosey as an example, three or four weeks ago in Las Vegas. I'm trying to get mentored by people who have done it before.
Ruth: Mm-hmm.
Jens Heitland: Just try to avoid all the pitfalls that you can get into, which is never possible. You always do things wrong all the time. But it's just trying as fast as possible. Learning by reading, watching podcasts like yours, or listening to podcasts in the end. That's one thing, it's the input you get, but the most critical thing is the actions you do. And that's one of the things that I learned very, very quickly. The more actions I do and take, the easier it gets to learn, and then easier as well to take things forward. And that's one of the mantras that I have today as well. If I want to do something, I just do it and figure it out on the way.
Ruth: I love it. I love it. And to quote quite a famous book, everything is figure-out-able.
Jens Heitland: It is.
Ruth: Love it. So you now run a CEO personal branding company. So I'd love to know, what would you say are the key pillars of CEOs building their own personal brands?
Jens Heitland: Yeah, so number one, you need to build a personal brand with the focus of building something for the next five to 10 years. It's not something that turns your idea into sales tomorrow. And doing that in a systematic way is, I think, the number one key that everyone needs to understand. I can give you an example. So I was starting to work with a CEO and the CEO had the expectation to make an influencer out of him.
Ruth: Okay.
Jens Heitland: And for me, there's two pieces.
Ruth: Is that easily done?
Jens Heitland: No, it's never, but it's also, I think for a CEO at least it's not the right strategy to do it.
Ruth: Yeah.
Jens Heitland: So it's, how do you build the systematic way that it is not just about LinkedIn and it is more about how do you build it 360? So wherever you are these days, you need to be findable. People need to stumble upon you. And now even more important than ever, AI and Google as an example, like how do you make yourself findable in ChatGPT? So when you put someone like asking for a speaker, that you pop up for certain topics and these kind of things.
Ruth: I love that. Amazing. And I find it really interesting. So I haven't gone as heavily into AI as some people. It's an area I recognize I really need to get into, but I love that you're searching for speakers in ChatGPT now.
Jens Heitland: Yeah, it works. I even get speaking gigs from that myself, like people contact me and say, Hey, and I'm always asking and trying to figure out, because I want to replicate like getting more requests and how do you get visible through ChatGPT?
Ruth: That's like a whole podcast in itself.
Jens Heitland: It's a strategy. It's not that difficult.
Ruth: Okay, so what would you recommend to somebody who's like, how the heck do I do that? Because a lot of my audience are speakers.
Jens Heitland: Yeah. So number one.
Ruth: So they, they are all over this stuff.
Jens Heitland: Yeah. Number one thing is build your own website.
Ruth: Okay.
Jens Heitland: Because what you see is similar to Google SEO, which is search engine optimization, is that whatever ChatGPT or any of the other tools is looking into is who is the source owner of that content. So let's say you have a BBC article or whatever, or Forbes article, it's still the story that you write in your own website and you own, will be ranked higher. So when you search for my name in ChatGPT, you will get served first and foremost what I've wrote on my personal website. And if you have a speaking page on your personal website, then that shows up also.
Ruth: Okay. Interesting. Tell me more.
Jens Heitland: It's very simple.
Ruth: Yeah. Is that it? Is that it? Yeah.
Jens Heitland: Yeah. Of course. Then you need to keep it, keep growing and doing more with it, because in the end, it's still the same mechanics when you look into the internet, is all about what text or videos or content is findable. So if you just focus on posting on LinkedIn as one of the examples, which a lot of people do, it's good, but it should be still as well in your, I call it personal hub, in your personal website. So example, this podcast episode should be described and including transcript on the personal website because then you can ask ChatGPT.
Ruth: Transcript should be exactly on. But does that not just mean that I have, I end up with a very bulky website?
Jens Heitland: No, if you structure the website well, it's super, super easy. I'm doing this by the way.
Ruth: I'm like highlighting all over my notes. You may be the most valuable podcast guest I've ever had. I'm not saying something.
Jens Heitland: Thank you. No, it's very, very easy because then you can ask ChatGPT in the future, Hey, who was the guest of my podcast in episode 237? And what was the question that I was asking him at five minutes, 30 seconds?
Ruth: Wow.
Jens Heitland: You can ask all of this in the future.
Ruth: It's insane. That is insane. Honestly, AI blows my mind. It scares me a little. It does, it does. The world is moving fast these days. Okay, so having your website, having like a specific speaking page, and then I guess linking to everything that you've done, including transcripts in the most tidy way possible.
Jens Heitland: Yeah, so I can give you an example how we do this. So I have a blog section inside of my personal website, and then the blog section is in the end, the podcast. So every podcast episode is a blog article, and inside of that blog article, you see then the transcript in the bottom. Nobody's scrolling through that, obviously, but AI does. So it's not interfering the user experience of the person checking out your podcast episode, because there's the video version, the audio version, and kind of a summary. And links to the guest and so on. But in the end, the transcript for AI makes the difference. That's why I've started that and do this with all my podcasts.
Ruth: Honestly. I love it. I love it. I'm totally doing that. Thank you. I, when I say I'm doing that, somebody on my team's doing that.
Jens Heitland: That's how it works.
Ruth: Amazing. Okay, so let's come back to the pillars of CEOs building the personal brand. So you've talked about building for the future. So thinking, where do you want to be in five to 10 years? Like, what do you want to be known for building at 360? So it's more than just showing up on social media.
Jens Heitland: Yeah.
Ruth: So what, what is that 360 view? What else should people be doing?
Jens Heitland: So it always starts with your personal brand. So understanding your brand, who you are going to be and how do you incredibly tell stories that are linking to what you want to do. So it's really finding that out and then building a distribution engine that exactly does what we just described. So building strategic content, I always say build five pillars because we have five weekdays. And then you have something to talk about every day. And then you just plan the content structure based on that, and then you create strategic content that positions you as the thought leader in the industry with those pillars. And those pillars can be, I always say, have three business driving pillars and two more personal ones. Like I'm posting, for example, about endurance stuff.
Ruth: Yeah, we're going to talk about it.
Jens Heitland: Which gives you a different perspective of me and then associates me with endurance stuff, has nothing to do with the business. I do, but there are people out there who love endurance stuff. Yeah. And they will be more inclined to hire me in the future or our company.
Ruth: Yeah. And I have to say, I love that you do that stuff because I think it tells anyone a lot about who you are as a person. Like you are tenacious, you're a bit of a nutter, but as in, there's no goal too big that it's insurmountable.
Jens Heitland: Exactly. And I can give you a great example from myself again. Last year I did a 24-hour walk and was raising donations. One of the people that discovered me at that time is now a client.
Ruth: I love it. That's amazing. Also makes me want to get a little bit more of this crazy stuff, but no, it's fine. My husband does it. That is plenty for one household at the moment. Okay, so back to the 360 view. So it's understanding the brand, who they are, incredibly telling the stories, building the distribution. Tell me more about the 360. Where would you be encouraging your CEO clients to be visible?
Jens Heitland: Everywhere.
Ruth: Everywhere. But tell me where is everywhere.
Jens Heitland: So definitely all social media platforms because people like you and I, we use all different social media platforms. Let's say LinkedIn we use from a business perspective, then we, let's say Facebook, at least the older ones, are still using Facebook to connect with their friends and schoolmates and so on. So when you are in a different platform, you are in a different mindset. If I pop up in front of you in LinkedIn, then you think about business. If I pop up, let's say TikTok, then you are in a different mood and discovery and the same message can be perceived differently. So that's why I'm trying to position the CEOs, even the big ones in TikTok and everywhere.
Ruth: Wow. And do you create bespoke content for each platform now?
Jens Heitland: So what we do is we create pillar content. So we, for example, we built a podcast, and the podcast will then be edited in ways that we can utilize that in all the different platforms. Or we do, it depends on the goal of the person. So for example, I have two podcasts. One is an interview podcast and one is a short form podcast. So every single TikTok video that I do, or short form video I do is a podcast episode, a single podcast episode. It's like bite-size. You can listen to me like 60 seconds at a time.
Ruth: I've listened to a couple of yours actually. Yeah, I really like that. So that's basically your TikTok content. I love that you're repurposing as a podcast.
Jens Heitland: Exactly. So it's, again, all of that is in the hub. Transcribed, which means all of that is indexing and working with AI. That's the reason why we do it.
Ruth: Wow. And have you set that up automated or is some poor person on your team firing that across regularly?
Jens Heitland: No, we, yeah, we're building and we have built our own distribution system so that we can do that appropriately because we do this for 20 people.
Ruth: Yeah. Yeah. I love it. I love it. Yeah. Amazing. Okay. I'm trying to work out, I want to know who you work with. Can you tell me any names? I was trying to, I was trying to decide if that was appropriate. Can you, can you tell me any of the CEOs?
Jens Heitland: I cannot share the names of the CEOs. That's unfortunately.
Ruth: But you're working with some like global household names, aren't you? Some very big.
Jens Heitland: Not super famous, but I'd say.
Ruth: Not one, not yet.
Jens Heitland: It's coming. 400, 400 million plus turnover clients. From Singapore to Switzerland, Amsterdam, which is Netherlands. Yeah, hopefully UK. We will know next week.
Ruth: Oh, and.
Jens Heitland: The US, like San Francisco, New York, and so on.
Ruth: Amazing. Amazing. Well, how exciting for them. So, we mentioned endurance sports. So you are, you're big into this stuff. So things like 50 kilometer runs, you've done the infamous Ironman triathlon, which is, I know this because my husband's doing it at the moment. It's a triathlon where the final part of it, the run, is a marathon.
Jens Heitland: Exactly.
Ruth: So congratulations. I think you're absolutely insane. But I also live with an insane person who loves this stuff. So amazing. What I would love to know is what learnings have you taken from these endurance sporting endeavors and how do they apply in business?
Jens Heitland: Yeah, I, a couple of, I think one very important one is that everything is mindset.
Ruth: I love that.
Jens Heitland: I'll give you an example from two or three weeks ago. So I was organizing a 24-hour walk in Germany for a charity, and we had a lady signing up one day before the event. She has not trained at all.
Ruth: Yeah. And what was her level of fitness like?
Jens Heitland: Not fit.
Ruth: Not fit. Okay.
Jens Heitland: She was not, she was not, is not a runner. Nothing. So.
Ruth: Okay. Like just normal mom.
Jens Heitland: Yeah. Working from home.
Ruth: Oh God. And she said.
Jens Heitland: I'm going to do it. I'm going to join. So she jumped into a bus from Switzerland, Zurich to Munich, arrived five minutes before the start, walked 24 hours with us, jumped back into the bus and was at home in the evening.
Ruth: Wow. I like her.
Jens Heitland: So, but all of that is mindset.
Ruth: Yes.
Jens Heitland: So yes, that's one of the big things I learned from all the endurance stuff, especially the long things. I believe everyone that is fairly healthy and can walk, let's say an hour, can run five to 10 kilometers if you want to.
Ruth: If you have to.
Jens Heitland: Not that you want. Yeah, exactly. But the long stuff is, if you, of course you need to be trained and you need to do that, and you need to love the process of that. But in the end, it's all mindset. If you are trained properly, keeping going is just in your head. I always say it's about 40% physical and the rest is mental.
Ruth: That's, I love, and I completely agree with that. So my biggest sporting endeavor was a marathon. Yeah. And I'm going to record, I might even do it today actually. I'm going to record a podcast episode on this because I accidentally got a marathon place for the London Marathon.
Jens Heitland: Nice.
Ruth: I couldn't run 5K when I got it. And I, I mean, I could, I could, 'cause I went out and I made it just through a 5K the next day after getting my acceptance. And there was a lot of, a lot of swear words around that letter in the post. You can imagine I was panicking, but yeah, I just, I was like, right, well, I'm going to run a marathon. How do I get from pretty much couch to marathon in five months? And I did it.
Jens Heitland: Yeah.
Ruth: And I, I just look back at that and I'm like, it just shows that anything is possible. It wasn't easy. It wasn't actually that fun, but it was completely possible. So yes, it is all in your head. I love that. And a little bit in your legs as well.
Jens Heitland: No, but then another part of that is like you said to yourself as well, it's like planning it and looking. Putting yourself a goal, which is a stretch goal, which really is like, you're not sure if you're going to reach it. It's all similar to business as well. If you put a goal in front of you that you know you're going to reach in a couple of weeks, it's not a stretch goal. So putting something that really gets you moving in different ways than you would ever do, it will help you to figure it out. And then a connection to that is you need to love the process, which is the, and most probably your husband will be a good example of that as well. He just loves biking, running and cycling and maybe not every single sport as such, but in the end, he loves the process and doing it.
Ruth: Yeah. Yeah. I'm not entirely sure he's loving it at the moment. He's about a month off the final, the final event. And it's time consuming at the moment. It is. Um, but yeah, I think he gets a lot of satisfaction. And it's interesting as well, like one of the pillars of my marathon training was nutrition.
Jens Heitland: Mm-hmm.
Ruth: So it's, it's the physical training, it's the mental preparation, that mindset work, and it's actually what you're putting into your body. And actually in business, that's the same as the support and the learning that we're doing to help strengthen our mindset, to learn the skills and get us to where we want to be. So yeah.
Jens Heitland: Yeah, it all comes in.
Ruth: I like it. Okay.
Jens Heitland: It is also the combination, like whom do you help and how? You talked about coaching and so on. Who do you get in that helps you to get to where you are and just as well leveraging your support system around you?
Ruth: Yeah. So valuable. Yeah. Community's a really big thing that I see in people's, in small business' success. Like yeah, there's a lot of people who are in a similar position. There's a lot of people who are a bit ahead of you. A lot of people who can help to shortcut you to where you want to be. But just knowing that you're not alone, 'cause it can be a lonely journey.
Jens Heitland: It is.
Ruth: As we both know.
Jens Heitland: Yeah.
Ruth: So Jens, I would love to know about a time that you failed.
Jens Heitland: A time that I failed. Yes. So let's take a startup example. So I built a startup that was building an assessment tool to assess leadership capabilities.
Ruth: Okay. Interesting. Sounds powerful.
Jens Heitland: Which, exactly, that's what everyone said as well. And I was like, wow, I'm off the races. Like everyone loves it, but I found out that nobody wanted to pay for it. Of course, everyone loved it. Everyone wanted to use it as long as it was free.
Ruth: Okay.
Jens Heitland: So key mistake I did was not building it with the goal. I mean, I had the goal obviously to sell it. But not building it that it was priced appropriately so that I or and my team can live from that. So understanding that early on it was solving problems, all the obvious things.
Ruth: But not the ones people wanted to pay for.
Jens Heitland: Exactly. So it's kind of, whom do we sell it to that has the money and is willing to pay for it? That was the critical mistake.
Ruth: And do you know that's such a key thing in business, isn't it? Because a lot of our listeners, some of them are quite early stage, and I always say when you're thinking about your target market, they've got to want what you do. So they've got to need it, but they've actually got to want it and they've got to be able to afford it.
Jens Heitland: Exactly.
Ruth: If any of those three things are missing, you're not looking at the right target market.
Jens Heitland: Yeah. That's my starting point now is always, whom do I go to serve? And are they able to pay me properly? That's for example, why we built this personal branding agency only towards CEOs.
Ruth: Yeah. 'Cause they can afford it.
Jens Heitland: Exactly. And the benefit they get through it is massive.
Ruth: Huge. Yeah. I love that. I love that. Do you have anyone on your vision board that you would love to work with?
Jens Heitland: One. I mean, most of the people that I have on my vision board don't need it, but I would love to work with.
Ruth: Okay.
Jens Heitland: One is Jesse Itzler.
Ruth: I don't know who that is.
Jens Heitland: He's an entrepreneur. He's a well-known entrepreneur. And has built a jet company when he was 25, like personal and sold. Wow. He's kind of the old school, not old school, but like very experienced entrepreneur and super into endurance too. If you look at like Alex Hormozi, all the people we know today.
Ruth: Yeah.
Jens Heitland: They, they all refer to him. It's quite interesting.
Ruth: Ah, I'm going to look him up. I've actually not, I've actually not come across him. Yeah.
Jens Heitland: He has amazing podcast episodes.
Ruth: Sorry, do you know him? Have you met him?
Jens Heitland: No, I don't. I don't.
Ruth: Okay. Watch this space. Maybe someone can reach out and introduce.
Jens Heitland: No, yeah. It would be amazing. But he, I mean he has most probably the whole team already doing this for him. Yeah. Because he's producing content and I mean he's, I don't know, multiple millionaire, millionaire, billionaire, most properly already. So, yeah. Still would be loved to work with him.
Ruth: Yeah. Well let's put that out there. Who knows? So one other thing I'd love to know is, looking back to your early days in leadership, what is the one thing you wish you'd known before embarking on your leadership journey?
Jens Heitland: The one thing I would say that leadership is not about me.
Ruth: I love that. That's a very enlightened view, by the way.
Jens Heitland: I mean, I mean, I had 20 years to learn it.
Ruth: Yeah.
Jens Heitland: No, it's because I, I was like, obviously when you're like, I was 25 or 26, it was, yeah, I want to be the manager, which was more, I want to have the power, I want to be seen as the guy. But in the end, if you are a good leader, at least then you're just there to serve. That's my position today is how do I empower my team members as best as possible. And that's also how I led in big corporate. And that's the way how it should be done, at least in my eyes. And not caring about you.
Ruth: I love it. It sounds amazing. And if Jens 20 years ago were to knock on the door right now, what would, what would his reaction be? What would he think of you and your life and your business today?
Jens Heitland: What the F are you doing?
Ruth: In a good way? In a bad way?
Jens Heitland: No, more because it's so different. Like I was still working on construction sites, I mean, a bit more than 20 years ago, but just like nobody ever would expect. I was the worst in school. When I, when we now meet with the schoolmates, everyone is like, how did you do this? How did you get to a global company, into the top level, and now build your own businesses, everything successful? I love that. And do that even not in your mother tongue, which is like, because I properly sucked in English.
Ruth: Oh my goodness. So you are the proof that anything is possible within a tenacity and perseverance and having that strong mindset, knowing the goal and just working your ass off to make it happen.
Jens Heitland: Exactly. And that's one of the things that I try to find in every person that I work with. Like I mentor a lot of people, not for money, just for the sake of helping people. And that's the number one thing I look for. If they don't have that, it's not going to work.
Ruth: I love that. I love that. And what advice would you give to Jens 20 years ago if you knocked on the door?
Jens Heitland: Start a business? Yeah. I wish.
Ruth: Would you, would you advise him to start it sooner or do you think your time in corporate has contributed to the person you are and the success that you are?
Jens Heitland: Of course it did. It did 100%. But I wish I would have all the tiny learning already with 20, because with 20 you have no responsibility. Like I could have slept on the couch of my buddies. And like not needing to care about my family duties, payments and all of that stuff. I could, let's say I could easily live on 500 Euro a month. Very difficult with family and house and stuff.
Ruth: Yeah. Different now, isn't it? You build a certain lifestyle and that's actually quite interesting. That's, that is the thing that holds a lot of people back from taking the leap to start their own business.
Jens Heitland: Yeah.
Ruth: And it's all, yeah. I mean, there's a whole another conversation there, but let's not go there. And thank you so much. It's been such a pleasure getting to know you. Thank you for your vulnerability for sharing. And honestly, it's just so much gold that I am delighted for our listeners to get from this. So thank you. So for anyone wanting to connect with you, where is the best place?
Jens Heitland: The best place, let's do this. You go to ChatGPT and ask who is Jens Heitland? And you will find me.
Ruth: I love that. I love that. Amazing. Well, thank you so much.
Jens Heitland: Was a pleasure too. Thank you.
